Are these a good thing or bad thing?

Do they restrict the growth of classes?

How many clases impose strict weight limits on their crews.....?

Why are they set so low?

The Cork 1720 has a limit of 450 Kg and the SB3 is set at 270 kg.

Has anyone suffered from these limits by being over or under?

Are they a manufacturers markeing tool?

Arguements please........

I don't think they are set "so low". 270kg for an SB3 is an average of 90kg. That is pretty heavy for a fit male and it is almost inconceivable that an athletic woman would weight that much. I know that theorectically you can sail an SB3 4-up, but almost nobody does.

Do you suffer if you have a lightweight crew in a keelboat? Absolutely yes. I owned a 707 for several years. Having 4 crew on the rail instead of 5 cost 3-4 boatlengths up a mile-long beat. You don't get it back downwind. Repeat that over 3-4 beats and it is going to make a huge difference to your finishing position.

Almost all major keelboats operate a weight limit and it invariably pays to sail close to it. If you don't have a weight limit, all the winning will be done by large men. Most owners find it is hard enough to find good, keen, talented crew without needing them to be heavy-weight males as well.  

If you want a class without weight limits, sail a 707.

What about those of us who are not in the first flush of youth and weigh in at 110kg and whos two sons are 95kg plus....are we to be barred from sailing a class that appeals to us?

Surely on light wind days the racing snake midgets will win and the fat boys will loose and vice versa on the plus force 5 days...thats how it has always been...why do we try to level the playing field allthe time.....? 

We pay our class dues and the entry fees and yet get chucked due to being a bit on the large size.....seems a bit elitist and unfair!!!

On the big boats you''ll get flicked off if you're too heavy or you'll be given a warning to lose 5 kilos. The answer - Eat less pies, move to another class or change crew. These are issues faced by ALL sailors so you can hardly claim it unfair or whinge about it. Weight limits are placed on boats not because someone reckons that it sounds like a nice number - the boats design, handling and performance are taken into account to give the best weight to achieve the best results all round. This means that you can go to an event on the limit, knowing that no one is going to have an advantage if the breeze picks up.

I reckon weight limits are a good thing but a real bi-atch to stick to!! 

I weigh 75kg and I'm not in the first flush of youth either. If I said "A Finn appeals to me and it's unfair that heavier sailors do better" I don't think I'd get a lot of sympathy. I'd be told to sail a boat that is suitable for me, or get to the gym and put some muscle on. If you really want to sail a particular class and you are too heavy, have you considered losing some weight? Sorry if that sounds blunt. Alternatively, sail a class without a weight limit like 707s.

If it were true that lightweights in keelboats gained in light airs what they lost in heavy, then skippers wouldn't work hard to make sure that their crew were as close as possible to the class maximum. Everyone who has sailed keelboats seriously knows it pays to be close to the class maximum weight. 

I think you misunderstood the point!

If you fancy sailing a Finn then you can...there is NO Class RULE that says a guy wieghing 140Kg cannot sail one!  It is the classes that have crew weight limit rules that I rail against!

If you are lucky enough to only weigh 70Kg then it makes sense to sail a Laser or similar....

I feel that the class associations that bar people crewing their boats with who they want to sail with are being disciminating against heavy people...They are often lead by the nose by the manufacturers who want the boat to have a certain image.....I really believe that heavy crews in boats like the Cork 1720 and SB3 ONLY have the advantage on the MINORITY of days....eg Force 5 plus when they can and do sail flatter and faster than the lightweights...It is all a con by the builders and sailmakers....Lightweights ragging their non reefable sails up the beat tear out their sails quicker than a heavy weight team who can keep their sails driving in the heavy stuff...Us heavy boys ALWAYS pay the penalty in sub force 5 by not sailing so quickly......therefore weight limits on these boats are total BS.

You are convinced crew weight in a keelboat doesn't matter because it evens out over the conditions. Believe that if you want. However all competitive skippers in high-profile classes like J24s, Mumm30s, Stars have long since concluded otherwise: that it pays, on average, to sail at the maximum allowable crew weight.

I have helped run a keelboat class. The weight limit is chosen so that the class doesn't become dominated by heavyweghts, hence excluding much of the male population and all of the female. If only heavyweights can win, in the long run only heavyweights will choose to play. Having a weight limit is nothing to do with "image": it is to do with allowing the maximum number of competitive sailors to sail in your class.

And no I can't sail a Finn at 75kg. I'm a racing sailor. If I don't stand an earthly chance doing well, why bother? You might as well say: you could always sail an SB3 2-up and stay inside the weight limit.

Interestingly SB3's weight limit at 270kgs, while the Etchells is at 285kgs, average weight of 95kgs each.

I guess the big guys like DC wouldn't be able to do it if it was less.

Swan 45 weight limit is 950kg. They are now having random weigh ins through the event, not one weigh in at the start. It means that "dipping" for the weigh in is out, the crew has to be that weight through out the event. The total weight includes the owners - should this be the case? Feels a bit mean, they paid all that money, and then need to diet to make the weigh in.

So which of his two sons is going to have the op then?

After reading the opinions here there are many points needed to be made:

1)  A weight limit is a method to equalize racing.  No more, no less.

2)  There are many ways to get close to the limit regardless of your own build.  Think of using a teenager to bring you up to weight if too light.  If an 80kg adult takes you 15kg over the limit, talk to the lads about their diet

3)  Lack of a limit opens the door to tailoring your crew for big breezes.  This can result in people being sent home on lighter air days

I race where my limit is 820 kg, which is supposed to equate to 10 people each around 82kg.  Well my crew has several people who are lightweights (including the bowman) which often allows us to race with 11.  My job is to max out crew weight because EVERYONE knows that weight on the rail is better than being light downwind.  This is true for all racing in 8 knots or above.

Before our weight limits were introduced several boats in the 10 metre range regularly showed up to race on windy days with 14 or 15 people aboard.  Those who only had 8 or 9 might have well just gone home.  THIS is why we have weight limits.

And with regards to the 'flogging sails' comment, how about a flatter mainsail for bigger breezes?        

The Swan 45 Gold Cup (aka Worlds) in Capri had strict weighins throughout the event. I was wrong in my earlier comment, about no weigh in at the start of the event - there was a weigh in the morning of the practice race, and then ychts were selected throughout the event to weigh in the next day. A notice would be posted at 3pm on the board that "... the following boats..." must weigh in before 0830 the next morning.

We felt this was a good system - no unhealthy dipping, no huge bgs of doughnuts arriving post weigh in, and all of the crew weights, at the start, and after their final weigh in were posted, along with the change in weight.

Interestingly some crews lost weight, while other crews gained weight through the event.

Maybe a glance at the Tasar weight rule would be a thought...

Tasar's have a MINIMUM crew weight rule to overcome the problem of over keen, over athletic Youth Squad sailors cleaning up in the class.  The rule goes along the lines of "The minimum crew weight is 135Kg.  If you weigh less than this you are welcome to sail with us but you must carry corrector weights equivalent to the difference."

Maybe the keelboats could say the same thing but you have to wear helium ballons equivalent to the difference in weight...

No only would the weight equal out but you could guarantee a few laughs in the bar later with the helium...

For the track idea to work you would need to have a Total moveable ballast weight which included the crew and track weights to get the overall displacement equalised. still giving a overall weight limit. Plus carrying even more weight around the race course which is doing nothing to make the boats faster

"carrying even more weight around the race course which is doing nothing to make the boats faster"

The whole idea of a weight limit in the first place is not to make boats faster - it is to slow down heavy crews in strong winds to make it "more fair" for the light weights!

How do you stop some one holding the weight up - put the weight track in a box with a sealed lid, test the free movement of the weights at measurement and randomly through an event.  Ultimately rely on the concept of sailor's honesty.

Hoe do you make sure the weight is right? the same way you make sure a L4000 is carrying the right number of lead weights (which also slow them down!).

thatsvwhy after race eat

pie and drink guiness!!