experience
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy Yarns...
Forum Discription: Tell us your sailing stories
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2034
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 2:44am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: experience
Posted By: spiderg
Subject: experience
Date Posted: 23 Jul 06 at 11:38am
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Hi Guys For the unexperienced like myself, I would like to stress a very big thing I learned. No matter what age you are, experience is a main factor in dinghy sailing. I recently went down to my local harbour when the tide was low, tried to take my dinghy out, and learned a big big lesson. I had no control of the boat, the current took control, I was carried away, and boy I got a huge fright. By the way, I'm 48yrs old UNEXPERIENCED sailor. I went back to the safety of my loch (lake) yesterday, and I've got my confidence back, but I want young folk to realise experience is essential. By the way, can anyone tell me why I had no control of my dinghy when the tide was low?
------------- Spiderg |
Replies:
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 23 Jul 06 at 11:52am
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How low was the water? Were your foils impeded by low tide mud?! ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 23 Jul 06 at 5:10pm
Where abouts were you sailing? (ie location) ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: spiderg
Date Posted: 23 Jul 06 at 9:21pm
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Hi I was in the harbour at Irvine, Ayrshire. Indeed it was very shallow and the foils were impeded in the low tide mud. Another thing was the width of the harbour when the tide was low. I'm sure my thoughts of it being safe, were misled as it was actually dangerous. ------------- Spiderg |
Posted By: fizzicist
Date Posted: 03 Aug 06 at 10:32pm
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If the tide is low but flooding, then the tidal flow could have been at its fastest. Mud is most likely the answer though. ------------- Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
Posted By: dics
Date Posted: 04 Aug 06 at 9:24am
| Get an Almanac for your area and look at the tides for when you went out. It should give you the answers (if it was to do with tides). Just because it's low water doesn't mean there's no tide. Tide can flow in any direction whether it's high or low but it is predictable and you can plan it in advance. If you're planning on cruising your boat in future why not do a day skipper theory to learn these things so you can make a simple passage plan before you go and so that you know when you can go! As electronics are quite cheap these days a hand held VHF & GPS would be a wise investment as so would a flare pack. A GPS may seem to be an overkill when cruising in familar waters but the money spent on it would be invaluable should you need to give your exact position in an emergency. Mobile phones are useless as there aren't any masts at sea! (amazing how many people do not realise this!) Also a DF can be placed on a VHF signal to give a bearing to the person broadcasting. |
Posted By: Charlie
Date Posted: 04 Aug 06 at 10:29am
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True, but there doesn't mean there isn't any signal, especially if you're keeping to the coast. I recently took the ferry from Dover to Calais, and there was no point in my trip where i didn't have signal on my phone, whether it was British or French networks. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 04 Aug 06 at 10:43am
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I always carry a mobile phone when free sailing. Rick ------------- |
Posted By: dics
Date Posted: 04 Aug 06 at 11:08am
| True, mobiles CAN work and in some areas do work. But I think why take something that CAN work when you can take that WILL work. Especially when you talking about saftey, an area where I personally would not comprimise. That's why I think A VHF is better. Other than a bearing being obtained on the signal other users of the water can hear your broadcast and may be able to assist in an emergancy. But mobiles are better than nothing. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 04 Aug 06 at 11:25am
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Fair but ... I don't own one, don't have a license and they are too bulky ... As you say a mobile is better than nothing and I know in my sailing area that I will always have a signal. Rick ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 04 Aug 06 at 11:31am
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if it was low tide in a harbour there could have been quite a strong current flowing from whatever river flows into the harbour at the top. if this combined with a bit of ebb tide it could be suprisingly strong. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 06 Aug 06 at 4:14pm
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My guess would be two problems you had. the first was probably no centreboard (and maybe not much rudder), this makes steering difficult plus if you try and sail anything higher than a beam reach you will slide sideways (leeway) at an alarming rate and then when you try and tack will find the boat won't respond. You would also have the tide to contend with, again this might make getting where you want to more challenging.
If you want to gain more experience quickly I would suggest attending an RYA Seamanship course. You could also try try raising the centreboard fully (somewhere with plenty of room) and see how the boat responds - this is invaluable if you go anywhere with extensive shallows. ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 9:56am
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Incidentally you can DF a mobile siginal aswell. ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 10:19am
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Actually in most areas you can get a mobile signal a lot further out to sea than most dinghy sailors are likely to venture and as others have pointed out, emergency services have the capability to "triangulate" (locate) mobile phone pretty accurately. Mountain rescue do this a lot, as do the police. In fact there is a commercial service you can subscribe to which allows you to locate your children's or employees' mobile signals. |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 11:27am
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And i case your interested turning your phone off won't help. Even a switched off phone communicates with the base stations periodically. You need to take the battery out. ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: dics
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 1:02pm
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Didn't know you could DF a mobile - learn something every day! |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 1:06pm
Their always watching you know ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 1:33pm
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Its a government conspiracy I tell you Wet towels and tin foil around the head - is stops the signals getting in you know. They cannot communicate with you then ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 1:42pm
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Resistance Is Futile.
------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 3:05pm
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I learn't to dream in swahili cause the man in the cornershop is one of them!!! ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 3:50pm
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Ding! Ding! Loonytown City Centre!! Everyone off the bus!
------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
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Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 07 Aug 06 at 7:17pm
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Ah, thats you have been programmed to think Tin foil, need more tin foil ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 10:03am
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They came to my house again yesterday while I was out. The replaced all my funiture with exact replicas. Couldn't fool me though, I knew they'd been there. ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: headfry
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 10:44am
You folks been drinking salt water again 
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Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 11:03am
... and smoking seaweed  ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
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Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 5:03pm
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errrm what does DF mean? and what base stations exactly do mobile phones communicate with? and is this why my phone battery is permanently flat? ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 5:27pm
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DF = Direction Finding Base stations = Telecomms arials in the area (you phone locks onto the closest one to you when you turn it on) They can use the system a little like a GPS ... see which of the arials around you that you are closest too, and triangulate your rough position from them. As for the battery issue .. probably. ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 5:30pm
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thanks villan ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 5:58pm
For more detailed info, ask Contender443 who's going to go so technical you'll soon be completely befuddled (nothing to do with your brain being cooked by microwaves, just aaaaaaaaoooooooooaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh of boredom  )------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
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Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 6:01pm
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To within a few 100m according to this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4738219.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4738219.stm |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 09 Aug 06 at 11:23am
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Nothing like GPS actually, which is a range based reciever driven system and threfore triangulates nothing. ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 09 Aug 06 at 5:50pm
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how do people know so much. wait a second, why do people bother to find out this stuff? not that im complaining about the mass of useful knowledge i can glean from this forum ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 10 Aug 06 at 8:20am
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If a quarter of the information in my brain was useful, I would indeed be a wise and rich man!! If only it was possible to retrieve the information I know I know, when I want it and not 3 hours later when I am in the pub ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 10 Aug 06 at 8:49am
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In my case, there is a long story about whether keelboat class rules and/or sailing instructions should require VHFs for racing a mile or two offshore, or whether (as I argued) mobiles are an acceptable subsitute. I was involved in framing such rules at the time. It was asserted that mobiles are not a subsitute because the coastguard cannot use them for position finding. At the time I accepted that at face value but it appears to be 100% wrong.
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Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 10 Aug 06 at 9:42am
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I believe it is quicker for the coastguard to DF a VHF signal, but there DF kit aint that accurate and that close inshore you may only be in LOS of a single mast. which means that they will only get a bearing to look along. You can't beat orange smoke flares and radar reflectors if you want to get spotted during the day. One of the main benefits of VHF is you can talk to the people coming to rescue you. ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 10 Aug 06 at 12:51pm
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Is it the coastguard who knows where your mobile is calling from or the Mobile company? And if your phone is only being received by 1 cell I think the area identified might be quite large! Garry ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: KennyR
Date Posted: 10 Aug 06 at 1:03pm
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Guess the originator knows by now - but Irvine harbour can be treacherous at times. Where the two rivers meet at right angles[near the harbour entrance], there have been reports of substantial whirlpools forming. Not Corryvreckan size perhaps - but big enough to get small boats into problems. Add to that, the narrow river size at low water, the [at times] monster waves at the harbour entrance and the local neds throwing beer cans at you and Irvine can be well dodgy! A couple of power boaters were killed there a few years ago when they went out of the harbour entrance in a gale. Better to go to Troon [north shore], Prestwick or Largs |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 10 Aug 06 at 2:05pm
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The second point is true but the central Solent is hardly the back of beyond. Regarding the first point, I am told by people involved in Mountain Rescue that they can readily obtain triangulation data for emergency mobile callers. I don't see why the coastguard would be any different. |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 10 Aug 06 at 5:16pm
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the DF equipment on lifeboats works well enough. 1st hand experience, you cant beat it. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 9:07am
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That'll be cause the LOS range on lifeboat is relatively short so the +/- errors don't grow too big. As mobile masts are more tightly spaced than the VHF masts you get more inputting into position calculation and, generally, better angles of cut. So near any populated shore you are unlikely to be only in one cell. Main catch is the range, VHF masts are taller so have better range. Of course if you know where you are, like all good mariners should, it doesn't matter a jot what method you use to contact the coastguard as long as you do it while you still can! ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |