Can anybody help me with some advice please?

Where can I find out about used cats?

I am thinking of changing from a dinghy to a cat but am not sure which one would be the best option.

I curently sail a merlin or mirror, depending on whether I have a crew (the mirror is getting most use) on the thames estuary. I am about 15ish stone and would like a cat that I can sail single handed in handicap races, crusing/racing with my 8 year old son or occasionally with two adults. I have never trapezed before so I would need something that can be sailed without a trapeze initially.

I also have limited funds available so it needs to be relatively cheap.

I have found some information about the Dart 15 and possibly the catapult with looks as if it will fit the bill, but there must be others that are worth a look.

Thanks for any help given

Steve

Steve,

Massive question really. Depends on the sort of sailing you are wanting to do and the standard of sailing.

Cats are addictive on the speed and power front. You just want more and more.

The Dart 15 is a great little boat with an active class and good competition. They have recently changed to the sprint 15 which is built in South Africa to the same rules. ( politics with Laser) Historically good second hand boats are hard to find. Can be sailed in a variety of styles so could suit what you are trying to do. Racing two up would be tricky though.

It's been ages since I've sailed with the catapults and know very little. Good from the storage point of view but I think they only race one up. Not sure about cruising.

A little bigger is the Dart 18. This can be raced single handed with the main only, though trapezing would be needed to make you competitive. For an eight year old it is also a good boat to start on. As the helm you would be a bit heavy but an eight year old would be a good weight crew.

Pretty much all the newer single hander/ small cats have spinnakers and trapezes and you may feel they are too much for a start.

You need to remember  that cat platforms are a whole lot more stable, it's just that when they do go wrong it's a bit more spectacular!

My story is that we had a mirror for about 6 months before moving to a massive lake and getting a Dart 18. I would regularly be out sailing single handed on the lake at age 15.

 At 15 stone you would also be able to right any of the three boats mentioned single handed.

Try http://www.catamaran.co.uk - www.catamaran.co.uk for the UKCRA (United Kingdom Cat Racing Association) website. This has links to most class websites.

And if you really fancy a challenge my Hurricane 5.9 is still for sail

You can SAIL any catamaran without a trapeze. But to get the best out of the design you do need a trap, if the boat was designed to use one (or two). Cats without traps as normal are: Catapult (it wouldn't be my choice), Hobie Wave, Hobie 14, Dart 15, Topcat 15, Prindle 15. The last 4 can all have traps fitted (and most of them have). IMO the Dart/Sprint 15 is the pick of the bunch.

You should also consider the Hobie Twixxy and Dragoon designs. Both have the potential to be sailed solo with main only, main and jib, or main, jib and spin. Both have single and twin trap options. So you start off with the basics and build as your ability/confidence improves (which should only take half a dozen or so outings). There would be nothing worse than buying an underpowered boat and then outgrowing it in a few weeks.

Steve at 15 stone you'd be very disappointed with all of the smaller cats. Weight is a real cat-killer, so you need to factor this in when deciding on a preferred design. All of these 14-15ft designs are aimed at the 60-110Kg range all up. So as soon as you put two people on one, youre' close to maxxing out on the boat and need to be aware of that. The boat will still sail quite well in a good breeze, but could go faster with less weight and still be easily handled.

I'd certainly consider a Dart 18 or a 16 as alternatives. Also pretty much any of the older design cats up to 18ft. You won't initially find the lack of a trapeze to be a problem. You just back-off a bit! Later you can start trapping and getting the best from the boat.

If you're prepared to do a bit of ongoing maintenance, you should also consider much older boats like the Condor, Hurricane 4.9, (same boat), Hydra, Mystere etc.

Thanks for the helpful advise guys

Jalani, if you are who I think you are at LSC, I'll would like to pick your brains over a beer at the club.

Steve

You'll have to search pretty hard to find those 'brains' (according to my wife, that is!) but sure, mine's an IPA!!

Hi Steve,

The Sprint 15 (ex Dart 15) is ideally suited to single handed sailing and sailing 2 up with a junior (8-15). It can be fun sailed with 2 full adults but is not competitive if raced with 2 full adults (so if this is going to be a big problem go with the Dart 18).  It is light to handle on shore and can be sailed with or without a crew on the same PY (just add the jib). It is easily righted from a capsize single handed (not true of the Dart 16 or the Dart 18 - which also needs use of the trapeze for both single handed sailing or 2 up sailing). In it's standard format the Sprint 15 is sailed without the trapeze but in the Sport mode it can be sailed with trapeze & jib and it forms a stable platform to learn trapezing.

The class the UKs second biggest catamaran class is very active and friendly. It is a good idea to look at the web sites to gauge the activity levels and friendliness of the various classes. Some of them are

http://www.sprint15.com - www.sprint15.com

http://www.dart18.com - www.dart18.com

http://www.dart16.com - www.dart16.com

http://www.catamaran.co.uk - www.catamaran.co.uk    has many more links

There are big fleets of Sprint 15s at Thorpe Bay Sailing Club & Marconi Sailing Club which are near you - so if you are interested go along one Sunday and have a chat with them.

The class also sets up for demonstration rides for anone who is interested.

Best of luck

Bob (Sprint 15 events secretary)

PS the Catapult is in the death throws and is no longer available new. It is only a single handed boat with one sail and

and................................?

..................a very small following.

My error in editing the message before sending it. I wondered what had happened to you John, since our exchange on the Sprint 15 chat page in September. How was it at Datchet?

Hi Bob,

We had an excellent combined meeting with the FX1s thanks. Water level was down to the second beach at the time but we still managed some quite good courses and the wind was around 12 - 15 knots both days. 7 F16s and 5 FX1s racing level, good fun and everyone had a great time. We hope to be repeating it again this year.

Since then we've had a combined event with the A's and found the boats to be very comparable. Some of the A's seem to be quite keen to race with us (against us?) again. Who knows we might end up with a combined F16/FX1/A annual challenge?

Hello Steve H,

I commend the posts to your thread especially those from Tornado 435, J Alani and Sprint Bob. I am an active Sprint 15 sailor at Thorpe Bay where we also have other cats ranging from a couple of Tornados to the Sprints. At the moment, we discern the Dart 16s and 18s to be in decline. We have Spitfires and a Shadow, but they are too expensive as starting boats. If you are new to cat sailing, you wouldn't be over-awed by a Sprint.

I am 12+ stones, and feel underweight. And I don't think big hairy blokes are disadvantaged. I know plenty who regularly thrash me!

You mention your eight year old son. Just you wait and see how he takes to it! In no time, he will want to grab the tiller from you and go trapezing around the estuary.

Whilst I am keen to promote Sprinting at Thorpe Bay, I have to say that Leigh SC are good friends of ours. I am as eager to promote the Sprints at Leigh or Marconi on the Blackwater. You will be made welcome wherever you decide to go. And we all see each other at TT events.

There is currently a Sprint 15 for sale at Leigh SC, by Rick Bakewell, who is also a friend. I recommend you take a look the the Sprint 15 website for details. Its my favourite site!

Soggy Doggie.

Thanks for the responses. It has given me food for thought. The advice and a conversation with John,(still owe you a beer!!) gives me a beter idea of what to look for and what more importantly what to ignore.

Thanks again

Steve