You saw it here first.

 I finally got some photos today of my 59er fitted with the trapeze. Wind today was from the land and very variable - between 10 and 20 knots. I'd say most of these shots were in about 15 - enjoy

it looks the same as a 29er/49er sept theres the fact that its deeper. what s it like to sail?

This is a short piece I wrote on another thread.

Report on sailing the 59er with trapeze

I've been out a few times now with the trapeze and can now give a better opinion of how it goes fitted with this option. I am using 505s as a yardstick because they are the closest performing boat that we sail against.

Upwind performance

In light conditions obviously no change in performance! In medium conditions, when the trapeze is being used most but not all the time (around 10-13knots) we go much better against the 505s. Previously they put a crew member on the trapeze and sailed away from us in the puffs. I would say we are now about the same or maybe marginally slower in these conditions. In fresher conditions, on trapeze all the time and depowering (15-18 knots) the boat comes alive!! Much more fun than the hiking version of the 59er. In these conditions we go past all but the really well sailed 505s and as we get better I think we will go past them. It needs to be sailed lower and faster than the hiking version and we are still working on getting it into the right groove. The crew needs to work the main more than before and you luff less in puffs and just ease a little more and go faster.

Downwind

Light conditions - no change. Medium conditions (10-13 knots) probably the most surprising change in performance. We absolutely fly past the 505s lower and faster. Previously we were faster but sailed higher. The spinnaker is actually cut too full for the boat in these conditions as we have found that we need to slow down sometimes as we are sailing too high on the apparent wind for the spinnaker to cope. Fresher conditions (15 - 18 knots) not as much change. We are still faster than the 505s but not by as much as when it is lighter. We have fitted foot loops on the back of the boat so the crew doesn't go for a ride around the forestay.

Pluses

Much more fun upwind.

Makes it much more than just a light wind flyer

Minuses

Spinnaker cut a little too full for the new configuration.

After sailing it a few more times in the new configuration the main comment I would make is that on open water where I sail it makes it easier to sail!

We still don't always negotiate the corners though as you can see.

Hi Mr Freddie,

All I can say is after you get one sail as a hiker then invest $100 or pounds in the trapeze kit. If you don't like it as a trapeze boat you can take the trapeze stuff off - I bet you don't.

If it is light conditions you just don't use it.

Here are a couple more pictures.....yes there is more than one of us.

It isn't class legal (yet) so if a Nationals was sailed it would be as a hiking boat. My thoughts are that to get Nationals happening it will need to transition to a trapeze boat. The level of interest at my club has been much higher since we made the change to trapeze.

All I can say since we made the change we are having a hoot!! 

Hmmm.............Not sure about the marketing slogan....but the rest of it is about right. 

I understand your perspective but where were the Nationals in the UK for the 59er as a hiking boat this year?

Oh thats right, I don't think they happened. They didn't over here in OZ either.

I think it is an outstanding design and happen to think it is better with a trapeze. I'm sure a trapeze isn't going to stop fatties - I'm one myself! It is the 9er design that could bring real high performance sailing to mortals. The 29er starts to sink if you put two full size adults in it. The 49er is bloody difficult to sail in over 15 knots.

They have their target markets but in the middle you have the 59er which is beautifully designed fast light and sailable by mere mortals in a good breeze. The only thing that held it back was its upwind performance in a breeze. The trapeze fixes this hole in its performance. It is also easier to sail. Upwind you have more weight holding it down. Downwind you can concentrate your weight at the back of the boat better.

Why not give it a try and if it is no good take it back off the boat. I bet you won't!! 

Steve (Not the MIni Mafia)

I agree but the class wasn't exactly doing well, something needed to change to make it more popular.

We are probably quicker already on 1 string!

As a hiking boat the PN was 905. My guess as a trap boat it would be 870 to 880 territory?

What is a twin string cherub? 

So the 59er is now the new 505. That means it joins quite a long list.

I recall the Laser 5000 and ISO being referred to as that 15 yrs ago, and just about every other bowsprit boat since (PY of between about 950 and 850) being given the same label.  The question is why?

We hear regularly on this forum about why the 505 is outdated/boring/overpriced.  So what is it that these new designs aspire to? 

I testsailed the 59er, with my dad about 18months ago, and that boat did feel really nice.  Basically like a well mannered / slightly de-tuned B14.  Did it feel like a 505....?

I'll say this for it, though.  It was a well built design (unlike some other recent designs one could mention).  In terms of relationship to the 505 design, you have to say that the lines of the hull do bear a striking resemblance from the shrouds backwards.

I did like the way the boat glided upwind - reminiscent of the best in the business in that class - the flying fifteen.  Personally though, I'd back the fifteen in that contest.

Overall a good performance hiking boat, in the Tasar mould, I'd guess.  I think it would be a shame to wreck it by adding a trapeze and throwing it into an already overcrowded market sector.

It would do better to try to create it's own marketplace, given time.

Oh and finally, the 505 that won the 2003 Nationals, and was second this year is now 11yrs old, it sold for about £6k.  Please don't believe the hype on this one. 

A competitive 505 isn't more expensive than anything else.  A new one is, admittedly.

CW

Originally posted by BBSCFaithfull Isis, i know cherubs are hugely quick when the breeze picks up and deadly slow when the breeze drops. But in 3 words deal with it. Other people just have on py figure y can't cherubs? If they are around 850-870 then leave the number there u cant as a class change the number to suit your wims otherwise we could all race on an oppies handicap.

Official PY is 975. In anything above a F2 we will blitz this. I don't sail in less than a F2. Go figure....

I'm perfectly happy with the handicap!

I am not suggesting that the 59er is the new 505.

The 505 is a great class. 

I've sailed the 59er as both a hiker and a trapeze boat. Putting on a trapeze does not wreck it as you state. If you think it glides upwind well as a hiking boat guess how it goes with a trapeze - better.

Why don't you sail one over there that has been converted and then still tell me that it wrecks it?  

Saturday was probably too light for the trap on Moreton Bay but Swifty still looked like he was having fun...

Anyhow, I can't see why it would take a different amount of time to rig than a 29er - the sails may be a different size but you still have all the same bits of string to deal with as the systems are basically identical.

I would agree with you if the class had become established on that basis.  The fact is it hasn't - many people say the marketing was wrong but even with that holding it back, you would expect some localised fleets to develop around the first few boats where it the reality of the boat would outweigh the original marketing spiel and even this hasn't happened.

So there is a product in the market place that has a niche - but it would appear that that niche is so small it won't support a class - so why shouldn't some existing owners have some more fun out of their boats?

You are right - it was very light out there at the weekend, I had a party to go to in the late afternoon so I let my crew steer and we just had a bit of fun out there. It would be exactly the same as a 29er to rig as the systems are basically identical.

If I sailed in a light wind venue perhaps the idea of the trapeze wouldn't be as appealing but for about 9 months of the year here there is an afternoon sea breeze which is around 15 - 20 knots so the extra righting moment is very welcome.

Personally I don't think that it could work in the niche that it was originally aimed at because the average couple that want a 2 person hiking boat would want something more stable. (You need to hold it by the stays to keep it upright when it is at rest) The people that would be interested in it as a performance boat thought it was boring because it had no trapeze. Solution - Fit a trapeze!! 

I'll say it again. In open water venues fitting a trapeze makes it easier to sail. So surely that hasn't moved it too far from the original philosphy of a simple to sail modern high performance boat that can accomodate 2 full size adults?

Steve,

Thanks for the pictures; I have come in to this late as I've been away. This thread shows what a bunch of whinging Poms we are!  Our boat will be converted this weekend. What 59er threads seem to generate, is the need for a new purpose built single wire assymetric boat. The ISO/Buzz and 4000 are long in the tooth and the market will sustain a replacement. The initial RS500 thread was full of disappointment once it was announced it was for kids. LDC will not bring out a single wire boat in the ISO 4000 weight range as it could detract from 800 sales for those who struggle to trapeze helm.  Ovington’s have other projects, and probably are a little nervous of trying to release another new venture into the market place. Laser seem to have moved away from performance dinghies. So Iguess this is going to be a good as it gets for now.

That is great to hear that the first boats in "old blighty" are making the move. Please make sure you let me know what you think about it after you have converted it. I really look forward to hearing another perspective on it.

We don't have such an overcrowded marketplace over here for trapeze boats so maybe it will start to move over here a bit quicker. Having said that most of the other single trapeze boats would appear to not be in the same class as the 59er for speed so it may do well over there as well. Certainly the level of interest that we have got locally is much greater since we made the move.  

Great pics, looks like a nice place to sail too.  

I wonder what effect this would have on races with both varities.  It does look like an event list has been prepared for this year.

Where we sail it is windward leeward courses. Once the wind is over about 8 knots there is no way that you would get to a wing mark on a triangle course with the spinnaker up. We are actually sailing lower with the trapeze on as we are moving the apparent wind so much.  

The size of the kite is also a little intimidating for people that would be in the market for sedate little hiking boat. It is way bigger than a 29ers and at 23sq metres is only 4sq metres smaller than a 49ers!!  Yee Hah!!!!! 

I believe the 49er kite is 38 sq.m.  The B14 is 29.2 sq.m and thats on a hiking boat. We definately struggle in the B14 on triangular courses in a hiking breeze.  But we can go much deeper than RS 800s with their smaller kites.

I stand to be corrected but this is the source I have for the 49ers statistics

Dimensions

Sail Areas

Weights

Crew

The source is the Skiff Asia website.

I have never seen a B14 in the flesh but they look like they are a really nice boat.

Steve

I stand corrected.

That is a frigging huge kite!