The Spiro launchers seem to work really well on the 505.

Agree - spiros are traditionally favoured by some 505 crews - as you can keep the weight further back during the launch.

However the only reason to go for twinned spiros would be if you had an automatic way of picking up the spinney sheets (spiro launcher rope goes straight through the pole, ot the other end, and has a metal ring on the sheet.

That is complex - and expensive.  One thought, though.  If you do go for it, you don't need to double up on shotty in the boom, as you are only launching 1 pole at a time, you can double end it.

Had twin poles in my Hornet.

Loved it, probably cheaper than a a single spiro if you do it right, super quick launches and even makes it possible for the helm to launch the kite.

I had twin poles on my Hornet too and they worked a treat, quick to launch gybe and drop. The crew could launch and release the pole from the wire and the kite could be used single handed.

My set up was home brew and pretty cheap to do.

If Mark says go twin pole...go twin pole!

He sails the Kestrel against me, and we use single on the Kestrel. So he must have found a better system in the twin...

That's exactly how mine was on Hornet 2095!

There is a point made on the Fastsail forum that you need two Spiros but we didn't have that, just 2-off 30mm blocks shackled to the mast (on the manual pole ring actually). That'll save about £190 then!

Blocks on the mast insted of a spiro is to same money. You hang the blocks of the spin pole ring on the mast, they usally need to be on a swivel or on shackles so they dont jam. The pole outhaul runs throught the block the same as it would on a spiro. It works fine (we had this on my furball) but the pole end dosent end up as secure on the mast as it does with a spiro fitting. So it is slightly less efficient and you need to be sure the pole outhaul cleat is ok. But if your just at the playing with systems stage it will be way cheaper than bying a spiro

Like this?

For what it's worth, my feeling is that twin poles are an awful lot of grief for a pretty limited benefit compared with single pole/spiro set-up, and the difference in speed of gybing can be offset by using the time it would take to make the twin poles work to go out and practice your gybing. I like lots of string - why else would I sail an FD? - but I can't see the sense in having all the fittings and weight of twin poles when one of them is always flopping about doing nothing except being heavy.

Stick to one pole and do more sailing? Cheaper, lighter, more reliable and more fun!

Neil

Well I disagree. Twin poles take a while to get your head around and to set up but after that they are idiot proof which in some clubs (with limited crews) is a major bonus. A twin pole system is probably cheaper to set up then a Spiro if you use blocks on the D ring or the 'gantry' with sheaves in it.

I do agree that you should have fun tho

It's a while since I sold my Hornet so memory is starting to get fuzzy but the one thing I remember is that in 5 years sailing with the twin pole system it never cam close to hitting anyone because if it's rigged right the elastic take the pole down the boom (which is out because you're retrieving the kite). I think we also tripped the pole in 2 bites with the crew letting it in far enought to get the kite down and then the helm finishing it off.

Agree with Matt about the flyaway pole - I've never hit my helm with the pole - just as well as my helm is also my wife!! According to Rodney, he had twin poles for a while but went back to the single pole because of the extra weight, and also reckons that the only way to get a real advantage is to have the complete system with string through the poles to pull the sheet to the end of the pole, twin uphauls etc etc. Seems like an awful lot of hassle when all's said and done! Where's the advantage over a single pole? 2 seconds to reach round the mast when gybing onto port isn't much of a gain. I've been thinking about junking the Spiro in favour a gravity system wher the pole can go either side of the boom. Just needs a normal D-ring on the mast and a peice of elastic from one side of the boom, round the mast above the D-ring and back to the other side of the boom. When you trip the pole, just stow it behind the boom, then after the gybe, hey presto! there it is.

Simple is good, I would say, but then I'm a crew and we is simple beings!!

Neil

We had the whole shooting match with one string pulling pole out and the sheet to the end and the major benefit in the Hornet is that older boats had crew decks meaning that the crews weight was really high during a gybe or set and caused problems rolling in a big sea or with an inexperienced helm.

Got a gantry for sale if anyones interested:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=280323275172 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageNa me=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=280323275172

I am about to start experimenting with a twin pole system on my FD, I have fitted the system and it works very well with dry drills I now need to try it in anger.

Initially I am using the system without the through pole lines to the spinny sheet/ guys as I would like to make sure the basic system operates efficienly first.

With carbon poles these days the additional weight is small, yes there is extra string but once its sorted, all that is needed is to pull the launch line to set and release to stow, if the bunghy is routed correctly the helm (me)  will keep his teeth, unless he makes a habit if putting his face on the boom to hold it steady.

I will post some pictures after the weekend.

Incidently if you check out the latest Pinnel & Bax catalogue you will see the twin Spiro or 'Spinno' as it is known is now being offered, although it aint cheap.      

This is labelled at P&B as the Proctor (Selden, who?) pole launcher, but it's just like the Spiro. Means you can just pull a string to launch a single-ended pole for your symmetric kite - that looks a bit like that balloony sail that's been limiting your upwind speed on the Alto, GRF.

The disadvantage of twin poles is you do lose the ability to gybe quickly. You need to allow time to get the pole off first at the cost of a few seconds setting up which can be problem in close racing.

If you can gurantee a crew who can use a single pole that's what youi want. If not then twins are the way forward.

Nobody seems to have told the Merlin boys this, they seem to manage some swift and elegant gybes!

Incidentally, I was looking at the Merlins at the show, none seemed to have twinning line for the spinnaker guy. I was surprised by this, on a class that likes a bit of string here and there.... Anyone know the reason?

The Merlin twin pole system does not use a spiro launcher and is mega quick and elegant to gybe.  In terms of twinning lines i can't remember my system well enough.  I'm sure i had twinning lines on my boat??  I will try and dig out some old photos.

I sail a merlin.

If i had a crew who could use one i'd try a single pole. The twins are marginally faster to launch, but with the single a gybe needs less advance planning. I beleive that the length may be an issue for some but i used a single alloy pole as a crew just after the rule change to the long pole and didn't find it a problem.

It's actually suprising that more classes don't use twin poles, espescially trapeze boats like the fireball. as the pole is not centreslung it doesn't need to be quite as beefy in the middle and they wouldn't need that silly kevlar wrap.

There are a few boats with twinning lines but not many. The reaching hooks are IMO better if properly located and no hassle to engage.