6ft Skiff
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1530
Printed Date: 19 Jul 25 at 10:15am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 6ft Skiff
Posted By: Strawberry
Subject: 6ft Skiff
Date Posted: 11 Mar 06 at 4:23pm
|
6ft
skiffs? What are we on about? The original 6foot skiffs were sailed on Sydney
Harbour during the early 20th Century. The sailors were well known
for their reckless have-a-go spirit, courage and daring, and relentless
competitive nature, both on the water and in the bar. The rules were basic,
with a maximum waterline length of 6foot, and unlimited sail areas,. Everything
else is down to the discretion of the designer, and ultimately how brave you
are. A
small group of students with a fascination towards sailing, boat building and
designing, and a general passion for putting enormous rigs on short hulls, were
looking for projects where they could try out new ideas. We explored the 6ft
Skiff concept and realised how interesting it would be to see how the class
would cope with modern skiff design principles, including racks, multiple
trapezes, and asymmetric rigs of epic proportions. The
sheer size of the boat, and the minimalist nature of the rules, means that
these boats are going to be fantastically cheap to make. Typical build budgets
are less than a hundred pounds. There is no need for a large workspace, as the
hull will take up less area than a single bed. Hulls are in general home built
from plywood, and the rigs whatever we can get our hands on. This creates a
cheap and easy base for anyone to have a go at making some crazy and exciting
boats. As we speak, there are a number of stimulating projects already underway, and we look forward to commencing the build of these during the spring. An Intergalactic Championship is presently being thought-out for the end of the Summer 2006. This will give us a chance to compare our creations, and find out what happens when you race a fleet of ridiculously short, and over-canvassed skiffs together. On behalf of the 6ft Class I would like to invite you to create your own individual Skiff, and join us throughout this exciting revival. For more info visit: http://www.6ft.flatwater.co.uk ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Replies:
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 11 Mar 06 at 4:26pm
|
yes stu, keep taking those little pills
------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 11 Mar 06 at 4:27pm
Keep ur nickers on Tom... 
------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 11 Mar 06 at 4:58pm
|
dammit, i knew you would resort to that
------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 11 Mar 06 at 8:51pm
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tom i dont think u could ever slate anyone on here again ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 11 Mar 06 at 9:20pm
|
Can't you leave the poor boy alone! Honestly, Carshalton, tgruitt might be no angel but no one else is either! So, give him a break, he's my friend. (remember, I've got a few photos of you and ideas how to use Photoshop to the full.... Might see you one the Gossip thread later?) ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
|
Posted By: jpbuzz591
Date Posted: 11 Mar 06 at 9:27pm
Yes but he is a christmas fairy! ------------- Jp Indoe Contender 518 Buzz591 Chew Valley Sailing club Bristol |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 11 Mar 06 at 9:31pm
|
Facile, jpbuzz... ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
|
Posted By: Dead Air
Date Posted: 11 Mar 06 at 9:44pm
|
max length 6', no other hull or sail plan restrictions??
I call that a windsurfer |
Posted By: Bumble
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 6:01am
| I love it..... a great answer to the 'new development' class question. Simple, cheap and offering a real alternative to the current designs. |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 11:38am
|
Have you guys been in touch with Paul N. in Sydney? He's built a couple
of modern 6s and 8s. Last time I spoke to him/saw the boats they hadn't
been out for years. Hopefully I'll drag Balmain Bug (Hysterical 6) out in one of the last twilights of the year down here. Apparently the owner is happy to let the boat go out, it just means dragging some guys off the Mumm and persuading them to get wet instead of getting another bottle of booze for winning the yachts, and that may not be too easy. PS - what's to stop a modified Formula board coming into the class? It would ruin it so maybe the Moth rule against freestanding rigs should be adopted. |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 11:46am
If you can find a windsurfer that short please let us know ------------- |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 11:51am
Thanks... youve pretty much summed it up. The best way to make something cheep is not to have much of it.. add that to the fact that short boats are going to be lighter, more twitchy, bouncy and generaly more grin-worthy and it starts to get interesting.. ------------- |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 11:52am
Oh my... 3 posts in a row... We havnt been in touch directly, If you have any contact details could you point us in the right direction? If you do manage to get out in the bug could you try and sort some pictures for us? would be really interesting to have a decent look and pics of the historics are amasingly hard to come by. There is nothing as yet to stop windsurfer rigs... the rules arent quite final yet as there are a few bits still being debated but there will be something to prevent freestanding rigs by the time we reach a final version. Cheers ------------- |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 5:21pm
|
And the minimum number of crew will be? If more than one, a windsurfer would be in trouble! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 5:58pm
|
2 people in 6 foot of boat????? good luck mate. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 6:09pm
|
No limits on crew numbers... the historic skiffs used to have 3 people on board
------------- |
Posted By: allanorton
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 6:10pm
 ------------- |
Posted By: allanorton
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 6:13pm
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Quick sketch on previous post, racks extend back with rudder gantry with T foil rudder, single crew tacks & gibes between mast & jib slot (has to let go of tiller ext.) Hull is a "sawn-off" cherub! ------------- |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 6:32pm
YES! that is BRILLIANT. I like the thinking... Innovation at its best 
------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 7:00pm
|
i hope you have twin tillers on that. presumably thats a self tacking jib. i like the thinking. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 7:01pm
|
If the helm tack in front of the mast, why not mount the mast on a
bridge and run the tiller undernieth, thus elliminating the need to let
go of the extension!
------------- |
Posted By: allanorton
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 7:08pm
|
I think you would need 2 tiller exts., with a bidge if you moved to the back of the racks the tiller ext would hit the mast/bridge. I think worrying about letting go of the tiller would be the least of my worries if I were to consider sailing something as riduculous! I just did a quick sketch just to show some ideas! ------------- |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 7:45pm
This is a sketch of my concept... Yes, it's a 49er main, and ridiculously big kite. ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 7:59pm
Now you've got the idea strawberry!!
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 8:00pm
and for those of us with smaller balls than stu... both are pretty much to scale was they were ripped off the cad image we posted a while back that was apparently a cherub.... ------------- |
Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 10:01pm
|
Hmm, If I were doing it I would go for A windserfer, or if that were banned Using a T-foil will control the pitch at speed but will not help as the boat slows to tack. So you need to get the weight forward to avoid a back flip when you tack I would go for a mast as far forward as possible with a single upwind sail. probably about 10sqm A relitivly small kite to a low hoist, you are V unstable during the hoist so I would want to keep the hoist time to a minimum. Infact I would probably try and graft a Musto Skiff rig onto a 6 ft hull. hull shape I think I would go for big flairs in a wedge shape so that I could get the most hull form stability ------------- If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right |
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 12 Mar 06 at 10:42pm
|
I would go for a sawn off optimist on the basis that everyone else will spend so much time swimming... |
Posted By: Robochimp
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 1:16am
| yeah frankly i reckon id be quicker round the course with a few of those foam floats (ya know..the ones they teach swimming with. only come in yellow and red for some reason) gaffer taped together and one of those little wind indicator flags stuffed thru in the middle somewhere. lo-fidelity sailin - bo. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 10:17am
|
Would a scow shaped boat fit into your bow shape rules? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 10:32am
I think you're going the wrong way on hull shapes boys. I don't think you can afford to lose that much buoyancy in having a fine bow like that. At least some of the original 6 footers were really scows, but with a pseudo vertical bow cut in. Imagine a mirror, but with instead of a flat bow transom, the bow transom in two parts at an angle of thirty degrees or so. Kinda like this, but I haven't done any sums or anything for buoyancy. maybe you could get away with less rocker.
If I could be arsed I'd build one, I've got a 84 rules Cherub rig complete wth a decent pole kite. Oh yes, are you going to have a minimum crew weight rule? I'd suggest something really silly like 30 stone so you can have two fat or three skinny crew. Underweight to be carried in bags of sand which can be tacked from side to side but must make it to the end of the race. |
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 10:53am
| How about a 6 foot uni-rigged foiler...... |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 11:09am
|
Jim is right, maximum buoyancy was (historically) the way to go for 6s
and 8s. Some of them were wider than they were long. The bowsprit had
to be in the water to provide longitudinal stability (in a similar
fashion, in Hysterical 18s you can't just ease the main in a gust or
the jib on the long bowsprit will make the boat bear away and the race
will be over). I have the lines of a top-class old 8 but I dunno how to
post them and it's a very old boat. Paul N's boats were very very small singlehanders, though, more like boards. Considering the way a 2.2m FW board goes with 12.5m of rag, despite the class limit of 1m beam, a rule banning boards should be brought in if you want to keep the class as it is conceived. There are top board designers who reckon a 6' by 4' board would FLY in 10 knots+. "Fly" as in, beat foiler Moths and 49ers. The Hysterical 18s, bless them, thunder/power/trundle along at probably about Flying 15 pace in such conditions so a 6' board would dismantle the 6' Skiff fleet. The Historical Skiff Sailing Association guys (find them through their website) will be able to pass on Paul N's contact details, I think. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 11:47am
There'y' go boys, that's the rig I have...
(rescaled slightly) |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 12:59pm
|
Stu mate - if we are gona build this I reckon on a furler jib like THIS!!
------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 2:23pm
|
Loads off comments so if i miss replying to a few shout at me and il come back to you... No reason why scows should be banned... although the current ruleset seems to sduggest otherwise. The intension of having a vertical section on the stem was to limit snouts being used to increase LWL (banning them altogether was decided against) but the wording needs to be updated to allow for scows ideally. The historic sixers were 6' long 6'6" wide saucer type things going for maximum volume but they were a lot heavier and carried 3 crew... initial calcs only but I think I can get away with a far finer entry with respect to overall volume (but will suffer with not having enough of that volume up front) My design on the website is a 'look pretty' kinda thing rather than a 'be fast' or even 'sailable' type thing... ive got 2 designs in process at the mo with one a lot closer to the original style and it is slowly becomming more scow-like with a lot more volume up front but the ussue there is that these things will be incredibly pitch-sensitive and if you stuff the bows of a scow under you're screwed, a finner bow and you might survive Thanks for doing the pics Jim... another new perspective on things although you might need to resize a bit... my sketch on the last page is to scale using my 97cherub spars (boom longer than hull) Good luck flying a pole kite too! Turnturtle: loving the names! Tornado_Alive: Nothing CURRENTLY in the rules to prevent you building a foiler but only because we decided the foilbase would be far to short to be practical. I have nothing against foils (I sail a moth and after the cherub mods are finished ill probibly look at foiling myself) but i dont think they have a place here if im honest. ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 4:02pm
|
Two question on rules...
1) I mentioned earlier weight limits on crew. Are you planning a minimum? It would make it a lot moe comical if boats had to be at least two handers... 2) Real skiffs don't have sail numbers, just an individual symbol for each boat... |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 4:37pm
|
OK guys, firstly I would like to thank everyone for the interest and support in the class which you are all showing at such an early stage. 38 replies and over 1000 views already. Secondly I would like to apologise for for the lack of input into this thread by myself. I have jotted down some bullit points of issues which have been mentioned so far, and will try to address some of them now. Windsurfers - I would expect a 6ft surf board to be MUCH faster than a 6ft "skiff". I don't believe this to be compatible with the class ethos, and would therefore push for these to be explicitly excluded by the rules. Have just scanned through the Moth rules and couldn't find the rule regarding windsurfers there, I'm sure I've missed it, but ran out of patience looking. Maybe someone could point it out for me? T-foils - Again, I'm sure it would be fast to put a skiff on hydrofoils, Moth stylee. But as before I do not think this would be in the best interests of the class. However, a t-foil rudder would help greatly with fore/aft stability. I would suggest that to avoid boats being capable of fully foiling, the rules stipulate that only one horizontal foil should be used, ie. on either the rudder OR the c/b. Further to this, I would like to see a rule which makes it illegal to adjust the angle of attack of the horizontal foil. The reason for this is that it requires some complicated engineering to adjust the foil on the water, and this will greatly complicate the build of such a simple boat. I think the best compromise is to allow the use of a t-foil rudder, but it must be in a fixed position, as on the "conventional" Moths. Any views on this? "Scow" shaped hulls -
Ben, I agree entirely. The intention of the rule is to prevent a buoyant "snout" being used to increase waterline length. I don't see a problem with scow shaped hulls. Maybe this is a rule which needs some re-wording. Sail numbers - I agree with you Jim, totally unnecasary and against the class principle of being a true "skiff". Min crew - I would not support a rule which limited the weight of crew which must be on board. I would not like to isolate particually heavy/light people. Also, I cannot think of another class where crew numbers are not limited, and in the future this could be an interesting area of development in the class. As for the mysterious "Paul N", can someone suggest where I even start looking to contact the fella? Is he Australian? Connected with the Historic Skiff Sailing Society? To those who have already begun developing their own concepts: It must be worth putting it into practice, what have you got to loose! ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: tickel
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 4:45pm
|
All this is very interesting and rather technical but it seems to me that a wide scow with a rib like a full keel running underneath terminating in the rudder might make the thing feel longer, This rib would be verticle at the bow. The foredeck would be triangular in section and stuck on top full of bouyancy, in the event of nosedive. Or how about a foiler with with the foil 1ft behind the stem. The mast would be towards the back of the boat and the only sail is just a big jib, loose footed and held on a bowsprit. Downwind you slacken rig tension. I did consider 2 masts and 2 jibs overlapping .Or a single mast with a "swing rig"? Or square rigger with fixed camber? I had better go now the nurse is coming with the syringe. If you epoxy three cornish pasties together and get some pasta you coul................................ ------------- tickel |
Posted By: Bobbins
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 6:03pm
|
What are you planning on making these hulls out of? Admittedly my
boat building knowledge is close to zero, but making some of the
flat-nosed hull shapes out of ply and on a student budget looks like
something of a challenge. Can't see how you could keep the wood
stressed like in some of the moth designs
------------- www.fastsail.org Fireball GBR 9476 |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 6:12pm
|
Right not got much time for a full post but I thought it was worth raising this website.... http:// - http://www.capecodfrosty.org/index.htm 6foot 4inches so a little long but it proves that something of this size can be sailed by real people.. In this case lardy Americans! (no offence to be taken by any lardy Americans reading this) ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: tickel
Date Posted: 13 Mar 06 at 8:53pm
------------- tickel |
Posted By: andyrj
Date Posted: 14 Mar 06 at 3:16pm
|
hmmm... if the hull only has a 6" max waterline what is to stop a design with a dreadnought bow and americas cup style 'hula' hanging of the stern to add for/eaft stability? ------------- water, water, everywhere... but not a drop to drink |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 14 Mar 06 at 3:44pm
|
There is nothing official to stop that... as has been mentioned a few
times the rules have been kept as simple as possible for now and are
still in their first drafting. The intent of the rules is obviously to
produce a 6ft boat however and anyone blatently trying to cheat this as
you suggest or with bouyant snouts/gantries will not have built a 6
------------- |
Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 14 Mar 06 at 3:55pm
|
Or what about sailing your 6 ft long by say 12ft wide boat sideways?
------------- If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 14 Mar 06 at 3:56pm
Except it would be way too narrow... |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 14 Mar 06 at 4:05pm
nothing at all... *runs off to measure how wide cherubs are* ------------- |
Posted By: andyrj
Date Posted: 14 Mar 06 at 4:11pm
|
I wasn't trying to cheat, it was more of a suggestion to see if any allowances had been made and to see if this form of design was feasible. Forward slooping bows are used in many classes and the designs are not deemed as cheating. My post originated from the point of bouyancy. Instead of thinking of inovative ways of floating above the water, what about a hull shape that passes through it... a kind of wave piearcing boat using the ideas of 'Team Phillips' I don't know if this contravenes (my big word of the day!!) the stated law on bouyancy - The hull must have a minimum of two watertight compartments, with a combined volume to support the boat fully rigged and crew while capsized - but I reckon it would look like somone trying to sail a torpedo! ------------- water, water, everywhere... but not a drop to drink |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 14 Mar 06 at 5:21pm
|
that just means that when your capsized the boats not alowed to sink doesnt it? if you could manage to make it neutraly bouyant with water ballast etc then it would weigh to much i think. im going for a simple design: a box with a rig on and it angled slightly in at one end to make it slighty more pointy. lets face it with a 6' waterline you NEED to plane. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: tickel
Date Posted: 14 Mar 06 at 10:30pm
------------- tickel |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 9:54am
Well, what a submarine doesn't have is wavemaking resistance, because it doesn't create waves. I think other kinds of drag increase though. Need a *naval* Naval architect here really, but I rather suspect that wave making doesn't magically go away when a vessel is submerged, instead it depends on how deep it is. So your submerged boat probably has to be pretty deep to eliminate wave drag, which in turn means you need a lot of sttructure to get up to the surface where crew and sails are, which in turn creates other sorts of drag... |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 10:52am
|
Weren't there pics on the Moth site a while ago of something that was trying the torpedo thing? I seem to remember that turning corners was a bit of a problem... ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 11:10am
|
Yep, that's correct. Subs obviously have no air/water interface and therefore don't suffer from wavemaking resistance in the form of a conventional bow wave. However at shallow depths a wave will form on the surface. Also, if not deeply enough submerged the hull can broach the surface due to wave motion, surface suction effect and changes in water density (e.g. sailing past a river estuary). At slow speeds control can be very tricky. You also end up with a much higher wetted surface area, increasing resistance at low speed. That's not to say the concept couldn't be made to work for a dinghy, but its not as simple as it might sound, and to say they have almost no resistance is exaggerating. |
Posted By: Javelin53
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 1:06pm
|
any photos of the original 6 footers available? ------------- I hoped the threat would be enough! JAVELIN 53 ENTERPRISE 16691,RESTORATION JOB TOPPER 29388 BUCKENHAM SC |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 1:17pm
|
There are a few on there, but they are a bit few and far between. No close ups found as yet i don't think... http:// - http://www.6ft.flatwater.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content& amp;task=view&id=5&Itemid=30 ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: Javelin53
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 1:26pm
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thanx ------------- I hoped the threat would be enough! JAVELIN 53 ENTERPRISE 16691,RESTORATION JOB TOPPER 29388 BUCKENHAM SC |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 5:41pm
|
Photos of the original 6s are EXTREMELY hard to come by... what you see
on the history page is pretty much all we've managed to get our hands
on since november time. As for torpedo hulls... http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=submoth1993yy5he.jpg">  ------------- |
Posted By: Javelin53
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 8:28pm
|
http://www.6ft.flatwater.co.uk/images/stories/history/balbug%20crop.jpg"> 3 people in a 6 foot boat looks like fun!!! ------------- I hoped the threat would be enough! JAVELIN 53 ENTERPRISE 16691,RESTORATION JOB TOPPER 29388 BUCKENHAM SC |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 8:49pm
|
were you thinking of this:
more info at http://www.int-moth.org.uk/DesignsLittleWing.htm - http://www.int-moth.org.uk/DesignsLittleWing.htm
------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: tickel
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 10:08pm
|
That looks great fun but as has been said the torpedo has to be totaly submerged with the lowest drag conection between it and the above water superstructure. Regarding drag the "tube" given its 6' length would not need a very big section to provide enough bouyancy to just support a 10 stone sailor an minimal rig. If the "vesell" was traveling fast and the bow wave surfaced behind would that cause drag? ------------- tickel |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 10:18pm
|
see my post on the previous page for the fully submerged moth... bear
in mind though it was either never built or was a failure so there are big flaws in the concept
------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 11:28pm
|
Images... Not a Six footer but an Eight footer.
Dominated the class in the 90s - 1890s that is. Helm Miss Irene Pritchard 
|
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 16 Mar 06 at 12:15am
|
The problem with a torpedo design is that there is no margin of error on bouyancy. Either you have too much bouyancy and it floats to the top or too little and you sink completely. OK - you could have water ballast to adjust it but lets say you adjust it to start with and then go on the water and all your ropes get wet as do you - suddenly you weigh 0.5kg more - oops too much and you're sinking again... Totally unworkable in my opinion. |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 16 Mar 06 at 3:07pm
|
My guess is that if a 33cm moth can float one person - then a lil bigger and carefull hydro stats calculations - den u can make a sleek 6footer! ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: tickel
Date Posted: 17 Mar 06 at 12:07am
|
O.K., .......forget the torpedo. ------------- tickel |
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 17 Mar 06 at 12:37am
|
Moth = 11ft long, 1ft wide, 6" draft. So, the boat is half as long and twice as heavy, roughly speaking, that is going to be twice as wide and twice as deep to get the volume you need...so 2ft wide and 1 ft deep. or 4 times as wide and same depth = 4 ft x 6" deep or 4 times as deep for the same width. = 1ft x 2 ft deep Sleek isn't really an adjective I would use... |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 17 Mar 06 at 9:33am
|
Arrr, ill wittle one up at uni - Stu mate, ours will RULE!! ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 17 Mar 06 at 9:55am
|
Listen to Blobby, andy_cherub... He must be right, he's an engineer! ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
|
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 17 Mar 06 at 10:02am
|
Im a Marine Engineer - well a uni student so he may well know more than me, least I got hull form programs to design the boat & find out the Hydro stats. So ill be able to design it sleek and bouyant & as he said, 4ft wide 6" deep - so if its 3ft wide, with say 2ft free board & racks - made uber light - it may just work, and wont be so much like a barge / oppie thing! ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: Bruce Starbuck
Date Posted: 17 Mar 06 at 10:23am
| It would have to have adjustable hydroplanes to constantly correct the buoyancy. |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 17 Mar 06 at 6:35pm
|
this is too complicated for the under £200 hull thing. make it winde and flat. then watch plane past doing 3 knots sog. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 19 Mar 06 at 10:07am
|
This is my deisgn. Note the large planing area, but lack of forgiving-ness.
------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 19 Mar 06 at 10:38am
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is this the hull with the 49er rig on it? ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 12:14am
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This is my basic design (larger than life) - its gona be a lil wider on the water line - and be more like Aqua - designed so sub planning its running with the wider part in the water, as it gets faster- raises up to be fully planning on the smaller surface area. Itll have a 12ft skiff No.2 rig on it and sailed two up. & a little secret too.............................
------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 12:32am
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That's what I keep telling the missus - but she doesn't believe me either! |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 8:28am
More thoughts. Same principle, a 7ft6 boat wth a V'd bow transom giving some sharpness. There's not enough rocker I don't think though. I doubtUI'll build anything, the singlehander bit des't appeal.
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Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 9:26am
| Stop encouraging them Jim! |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 9:51am
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This whole thread is reminding me of the theme song to Baddial and Skinner unplanned I can't wait. ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: Dead Air
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 11:03am
| What the LOA for an oppie? Could be a cheap starting point for people to bolt rigs onto (perhaps with a bit of reinforcement) |
Posted By: Dead Air
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 11:10am
| Ah, 3202mm. So these skiffs have to abe less than 2/3's the length of an oppie! |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 11:37am
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------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: Javelin53
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 1:18pm
perhaps a shortened oppie ------------- I hoped the threat would be enough! JAVELIN 53 ENTERPRISE 16691,RESTORATION JOB TOPPER 29388 BUCKENHAM SC |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 2:10pm
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An oppie is 7' 7" long (2.31m) so you'd have to lop 17" off the front, which might just muck up the rocker line... ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 2:12pm
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Nothing making you go singlehanded if that bit doesnt apeall Jim.. Your lastest sketch looks surprisingly similar to one of my earlier designs but im going down a totaly different route now... Its gonna be out of the box so far it will make your average 6ft twin wire 30sqm big rigged skiff look mainstream IF it works I give the latest concept about a 49% chance of failing, 49% chance of being immense fun but uncontrolable and 2% chance of working well enough to get it round a course. That makes over 50% chance of fun so im taking a leap at it... You may still be sceptical Mike, but admit it... you'll be there in the queue to have a go when it kicks off.. Cut down oppies? nahh... cut down Cape Cod Frosties are where its at! you only have to loose about 4" instead of the 2' your loose from an oppy hull ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 6:14pm
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i dont want to be sceptical of this great idea i just dont want to die trying it out. i might wait to see what the 1st 4/5 boats do when they hit the water and if i think ill survive ill be straight down to somwhere where i can get marine grade ply. make sure to post some pics on the site when you get these things working. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 8:53pm
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Maybe you should set a deadline and have a single event where everyone
launches their boats at once and we see what the hell happens.... Could
be the event of the year! |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 8:59pm
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Now that's an idea.Book me front row seats please ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 9:47pm
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i will be there with my camera!!
------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 10:03pm
There will be an event this year for certain... cant garentuee there wont be any secret boat testing before hand though... ------------- |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 21 Mar 06 at 12:04am
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Its a matter of getting this sodding degree out of the way before i can find time to build a 6 footer... got the small matter of a cherub conversion to fit in somewhere too!! I'll be on the start line with something though! ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 21 Mar 06 at 8:38am
| You could convert your Cherub into 2 six foot skiffs quite easily.... |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 21 Mar 06 at 10:12am
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haha, true. Not sure whether the front or back half would be best?!
------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 21 Mar 06 at 12:20pm
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Mike mike mike.................................. ohhhh dear ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 06 at 6:38pm
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i said when you get these things working not if. and i want to be sailing a 6ft someday but if i have the skills to sail it or time to build it is another matter. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 26 Mar 06 at 12:22pm
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Just a quick update... we now have 29 registered members from all over the world! Holland, Australia etc. Lots of people seem to be waiting to see the first one hit the water before they get too involved but it seems that people are starting to see the funny side of it! Have a go... build and sail a REAL mans boat!! ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 12:15am
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Yer but dude - who else is making theirs 3-man!! HAHAHA! Im certainly makin mine strong enough - so with the right wind with my HUUUGE rig itll fly! ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 4:39pm
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3 man on 6 ft of hull?? thats only 2 foot each!! you mad mad person. how do you intend to tack and gybe? ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 4:44pm
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the historic 6 footers had 3 crew so its definantly 'possible'... whether it will be quick is highly dubious though! ------------- |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 4:46pm
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has anyone started building there boats? cos there seems to be loads of chat but not alot of action. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 4:51pm
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If youd been paying attention youd notice that there are no builds yet... Im waiting untill ive stuck my cherub back together before I have enough room 9even for something this small) and the other 'confirmeds' are waiting for end of coursework deadlines/warmer weather etc ------------- |