the 29er is generally a southern sailed boat and we are in the very north with the closest fleet with 8 boats about 2 hours away. to have any decent chance of going anywhere in the racing scene we will have to travel down to the southcost an awfull lot (approx 9 hours!). this is very hard as neither of us can drive and we rely on parents who have lives of their own. (probably more commitment than is possible)

we have 2 choices:

1. travel most weekends to other sailing clubs to train and race with other 29ers and hopefully improve our results steadily. (sailing for results basically)

2. Sell the 29er and buy a 49er, considering we are 15 turning 16 and both approx 65 kg and we sail on a very gusty lake this will be a challenge but also one hell of a laugh, we would travel a bit and do the nats and scottish skiff racing circuit, (not sailing for results but just to go fast and have fun!)

my question is; do we have a chance of doing well in our class or would it just be best to go for the more leisurely option? anyone got any advice?

cheers

having fun is the most important thing and if u enjoy sailing the 29er dont change!  i would recomend changing into a 49er if u want the racing side of it.  we have considered it before and being 16 myself i dont fancy my chances not cos of ability but just cos of lack of money personally.  good luck with what ever u do

to be honest we would definatly prefer to sail the 49er if it was for fun (they go like sh*t off a shiny shuvel when it isnt upside down- that when we will be sailing it lol) the 29er is a bit boring (slow) but as it is the youth class if we were to go for the racing side it would seem sensible to go through the youth process then move up into the 49er later.

what would i expect to pay for a competitive twin trap? (not including maintanaince costs) erm... any others pearls of wisdom would be welcome - nothing in particular.

we are in the scottish national squad - not sure if itll last long as there is only 3 youth boats in the country and 1 of them has just left the squad, and next year both of the other 2 boats will no longer be youths. i think this will be the first and only year of the RYA scottish 29er squad

cheers guys - see who wouldnt want to be part of such a friendly class ill get back 2 u on that 1

any change in class will be hapenning at the end of the 2006 season, and as we both have at least an extra 2 inches to grow in height and i expect we will both fill out a fair bit maybe not fully by then but im sure we will be bigger. the wet part is half of the fun, but the exspense isnt so fun. we also considered an rs800 which would definatly be more suitable but considering tom crewed for 1 for a year when he was 14 i think we fancy a chalenge (not that it wouldnt be).

the fact that we will be chainging class at the end of the season, i would be suprised if aquamariner stayed on the market for that long. £5000 would be the very upper limit of the budget and even then dad would need alot of persuasion.

I suppose you have to let the main off first

Originally posted by carshalton fc even though i hate to say it.  a cherub would probily be your best option there is no point getting a 49er and everytime there is a f4-5 u just get spanked.  at least u will be able to sail the cherub.

 Luke !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by les5269 Originally posted by carshalton fc even though i hate to say it.  a cherub would probily be your best option there is no point getting a 49er and everytime there is a f4-5 u just get spanked.  at least u will be able to sail the cherub.     Luke !!!!!!!!!!!!!

yer i know i think i am getting a soft spot for cherubs but i still  my 4tonner

well on most boats they have mainsheet cleats, but they are shockly poo poo

Originally posted by Prince Buster 29erXX???? Even if it does sound like a bra size

Big bra !! Maybe it's the new way of sizing a kite

ok, i know we are way underweight at the moment, but i have said that the time we do change will be at the end of this season, by which time we should both be taller and a bit more beefy. what is about the minimum crew weight for a 49er? what can i say - i am ambitious!

i think i would prefer an rs800 to a 29er xx due to the fact that the rs is an established class with a good racing scene whereas the 29er xx is just starting out.

tom may be going more seriously into windsurfing now so if i cant get another crew it might have to be a rs600 or contender for me

i am pretty sure that we will eithger be moving into a 49er or a cherub for next season depending on how e fill out and how well the weights training goes, and if i still have a crew next year.

Beening the correct weight for the 49er makes getting the boat handling issues sorted a lot easier. So I guess you should aim for around 148Kgs. However you could probably get away with 142Kgs but it would not be ideal!

If your not convinced you have a commited crew I wouldnt even consider the 49er personaly. As much as I hate to say it the 29xx would probibly suit you best for the moment.

If your looking at singlehanders give the moth a look in too

i helmed an iso for half of last season (14) and i think i coped fairly well (beating a 49er on the water in one race - not to blow my own trumpet). my bro crewed the same boat a year before (13) before moving up to crewing an rs800 for last season.

as far as the 29er xx goes im would much prefer to go on the rs800 circuit as we would just be on the weight range with the equalisation. the only thing tipping the balance between these two is the fact that the 800 has an established racing scene which is growing.

as far as the crew is concerned, if we are still sailing together he will be comitted otherwise i will be in a singlehander.

I don't think it will take too long to establish a 29er XX circuit and with your previous 29er experience and the impetuosity of youth when not get one and set your self an unrealistically high tgt, like winning the first Nats and work like deranged idiots to achieve it.  Now that is a CHALLENGE.

i imagine the 29erxx would be best,  as a "younger" person like yourself i can understand why u want to go into the 800 and 49er but sometimes u need to think about things like maintence cost etc and if u get the 29erxx u will aready have the boat just need to get the rig and if u breack something on the rig u can always swap for the old rig as a back up.  Also once u have mastered the xx u can jump into a 49er or 800 and u are less likely to swim all the time and breack things. 

ipersonally have no doubt that we could handle an 880 even now. Tom has already had a years crewing experiance in one and his helm was only the same weight as i am now, they coped very well, not achieving too many good results due to the helm's extremely bad arthuritis, but not too many breakages.

you have made some valid point about the 29er xx but do people really believe it will take off? i have my doubts, but i may be wrong.

yer course it will take off it is designed by jelien bethweight and made by ovi it has to be a hit 

agreed

i would have thought it would be strenth we lack in as youths not agility.

we have narrowed it down to 3 options:

1. cherub

2. rs800/29erX

3. 49er - depending on how much we grow etc

Not saying that your not good enough or anything but a 49er is a very difficult boat to sail. I do not sail one but I am getting one this year because this is my last year as a youth in the 29er. If you look at the 49er guys that come out of 29ers it takes them a fair while to get up to a reasonable level at boathandling and not pissing it in a every bear away etc.

Personnally I would say sail a 49er first and sail it in a reasonable breeze aswell just to see what they are like. I would say get a 29er XX, after sailing one at the Europeans this year they are awsum. We were probably a bit to heavy at 142kg but it was very quick - you keep up with 49ers downwind in 14 knots you just sail a higher angle and upwind they a rapid. Once people get expreianced in them and sort out rig settings etc they will be faster than an RS800.

It would not be strength it would be endurance and aerobic fitness. There is not to much strength required compared to other boats but you do have to work the whole time. Ever tryed hoisting a 49er kite - easy the first time and then they seem to get considerable slower each time.

I would go for the 29er XX after sailing it.

Basically, Granite has summed it up. However I'd choose the 5000 over an old 14 because its an SMOD and you don't have the further developed boats over-shadowing it within the class, if you have the ability in the 5k there's nothing to stop you winning the opens in an old boat. General running costs for the 49er can be blown out of proportion, we've had our boat since 2004 and only had to replace one mainsheet, two gnav arms and a block for one of the control lines through general wear and tear. Reckon that's well under £200. If you get a decent boat with good inventory of sails and spares they don't cost too much to keep running. Insurance is the only bad point, know of 3 49ers getting quoted around £500 ecah this season. If you are confident but air on the side of caution with the boat initially, it isn't too bad, basically be confident with your boat handling skills but don't jump in to the deep end and go out in big winds until you know what your doing. A lot of the boat handling skills can be picked up off Higher and Faster, had a really good crew step onto the boat with little experience of her before and was up to speed because he'd studied the manouveres on the DVD.

yer, you've all made very valid ponits. we have organised a go in a cherub we hope for april, and we have already sailed an rs800 together, im not too sure about the 5000 and im pretty sure we wont be getting into one of them. does anyone know when the 29erX rigs will be available? i think we would prefer a one design to an old 14 basically because of the disadvantage we would have over the newer boats in the class and we dont hav the funds to upgrade to much. If we are lucky there might be a couple of 49ers at the kielder scottish skiff event in april so we will try and blag a ride if we can. i supose to make a proper decision we need to try all the possibilities.

thanks

you've all been a great help

see this is the type of thinking i can get along with - a bit more positive lol. but yer, we are both 65 kg and 5'11" so by the end of this season we should both be roughly 6 foot and a couple of kg heavier. if my older bros are anything to go by, we can both expect to be 6'2"+ and 75kg before to long, admittedly the 'boat handling hump' of the 49er will be a big one to get over but i have the confidence that we could do it. It all just depends on what happens in the nest few months. thanks again.

We bent the jammer down slightly on the 5k so we'd still remain class legal with equipment and it was still there if we ever needed.

Originally posted by Prince Buster Mainsheet cleats are a bitch!!  The worst experience i've had with one was when i was sailing an ISO (which, incidently are pigs!) at my club and the crew forgot to hook on and swung out and......splosh - leaving me to capsize nice and fast with spinni up too cos i couldn't unjam the mainsheet from the frikkin cleat! Then, not content with just chucking me out, the b@$tard sailed into Southend pier!

Sounds more like the consequences of clumsy

Originally posted by kasey3000 Les.....going on recent experiences......I think no comment from you would have been better there

Ha Ha good one BUT...... I wasn't driving

Fergus

Going back to your 1st post you are to light for a 49er the ideal weight is about 150kg. but you could get away with 140kg

Keilder is fine for a 49er me and my crew adam sailed one at the dam to dam last year.

I would give it a year or two in the 29er then if you get bigger and better then move into the 49er

Regards

Ian

Ps have you used the tiller extensions yet and how are they?

49er would be good if you get a bit bigger by the end of the year. I would not go for an 800 from a 29er. The helm would enjoy it but the crew would be bored with out a main sheet to play with.

It is a shame there is a lack of boats up north but it will be like that in most boats up there. we were lucky for a few years that we had 4 of the fastest musto skiffs in the country at Sunderland (kev Anderson 1st nats 2004 Ian Trotter 1st nats 2005 martin Boatman 3rd nats 2004/05 and me 2nd worlds 2004 and 2nd nats 2003) but that has faded away with kev going kite surfing martin getting a 49er and I have moved to Southampton.

So I say It is best to go with what you enjoy and hope other people see it and get one to. or buy a laser so you get good racing. but why would you want to sail one of them!!!!!

that is what i was saying they hurt and dont even go fast. what is the point!

Much better to stand on the side hurts less and you go faster

depends on how much traveling you do? that was allways my biggest expence when I lived up north!

looked like a good event at keilder at the weekend shame me and adam could not make it this year. uni comitments and a hole in are new 14 did not help