Performance vs. Participation or Correlation vs. C
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14053
Printed Date: 10 May 25 at 2:01am
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Topic: Performance vs. Participation or Correlation vs. C
Posted By: JimC
Subject: Performance vs. Participation or Correlation vs. C
Date Posted: 25 Jun 24 at 3:06pm
Performance vs. Participation or Correlation vs. Causation?
is @Mark Jardine's latest email editorial.
To extract the headline paras:
"I've heard many a time that one of the reasons for a fall in participation in sailing is the increased performance of boats. Effectively, the skill level and athleticism required in high performance boats excludes a range of people from participating."
"Personally, I cannot agree with this rationale for one simple reason: just because high performance sailing is available, does not mean that traditional, or lower performance boats, suddenly aren't available for all."
Mark, if you're reading this, I think there are some things you are missing. Your premise is certainly correct that the existence of high performance boats doesn't preclude more moderate ones. Indeed one of the striking things about participation is the way it has condensed into the middle. The higher performance classes are pretty much all in trouble one way or another. Remember the days when the Fireball and 505 had amongst the biggest turnouts in the country? No trapeze boat is anything like as popular now. And equally at the slow end most of the small cheap classes are equally down. The Mirror is a shadow of its former self, the other 11 footers have more or less gone.
As for Moths: I don't think they've got 20 boats to an open meeting this year. They're still pretty much a unique experience, for all that various not quite Moths have come and gone, but there's no mass participation there - not that there needs to be.
And there are not more classes overall. There are a lot fewer. Look at the RYA Portsmouth Yardstick historical data for the number of classes that have simply dropped off. In 1980 there were over 150 classes on the PY list, now there are about 90.
The ILCA Nationals number is indeed misleading. For whatever reasons few adult ILCA sailors seem to choose their Nationals. The Masters attracts a far larger turnout and is arguably more representative of what is still by far the most popular class in the country.
Sailing has a participation problem, but it has that in common with damn near every other outdoor participation sport/hobby that requires skill and commitment. My own feeling is we live in the age of the dilettante, who does a bit of this and a bit of that in a casual manner without actually feeling the need to be very good at any of them. And if I'm right, and its a society wide phenomenon, perhaps all we can do is trim our sails to it.
Pay to play is the perfect model for the dilettante, but it requires a major rethink from clubs. It seems to me that as a model it really requires paid staff, and the customers will be expecting paid staff and treating them as such. The old volunteer model was that everyone put something in and everyone got something out, which was the perfect model for the less affluent 50s and 60s. But if in this new century many participants are putting in nothing but money then the whole thing is out of balance and volunteers will be increasingly hard to find, for they will inevitably feel they are being exploited, as indeed they are.
Another thing about pay to play, though, is it is all about the affluent executive class, who are increasingly the only ones who can afford their selection of expensive hobbies. There's not really much accessibility about it unless you are reasonably wealthy. That's another contrast with the old club model, which was much more lower middle class and skilled manual workers.
I think I've ranted enough...
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Replies:
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 25 Jun 24 at 8:29pm
Jim . I totally agree with your take on the situation.
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Duncan
D-zero 315
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Posted By: The Q
Date Posted: 26 Jun 24 at 5:22pm
I disagree there are less classes, it's just that many smaller classes are not sailed enough to register on the PY.
ONe problem is cost, many in the past built their own boats or bought boats second hand that had been built privately. Today too many think you can only race / compete with the latest £15,000 boat even in one design classes.
I often talk to non sailors at a village boat show. Many are genuinely surprised at how cheap sailing can be. They seem to think it must cost Thousands, but I sail, race, and with all up must pay costs for boat, membership , broads tax, boat and maintenance the cost is less than £700
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Still sailing in circles
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Jun 24 at 5:43pm
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CASC clubs can offer virtually free sailing to people with low income. Cost no problem then. Getting to people who don't know they are sailors is the problem, sports clubs are a good place to offer taster sessions, they are committed to a sport already. My old club fell off the cliff edge of aged members, plenty of effort put in to try to get new members but no joy. Only about 20 members now and average of 6 boats cruising, no racing for a couple of years.
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Robert
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Posted By: The Q
Date Posted: 27 Jun 24 at 5:54am
My club suffered with falling numbers, aging members till about 20 years ago, then they set up a sailing school, now they have around 80 children registered each year, learning on a Thursday afternoon/ evening May to October.
This has fed through to the normal sailing and the dinghy classes are now the biggest.
Having children learning meant adults sitting around waiting, some have chosen to learn to sail themselves, others have learnt / taken on secondary duties, rescue boat, T bar etc.
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Still sailing in circles
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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 15 Jul 24 at 10:22am
There are still plenty of volunteer clubs that are doing really well. I joined Bowmoor a few years ago and have been pleasantly surprised that it seems to have gotten so many things right. No one could pretend that the lake itself is the best to sail on (in fact it is frustratingly small at times) but the club is thriving. Big turn out for competitive racing with a big spread in ages and genders, active youth section, lots of training, other water sports welcome (canoe, SUP, swimming etc) and a very active social scene with people camping most weekends. My point is that it is not all doom and gloom out there and also interesting that there are a range of boats from older / cheaper to the newest and most expensive - no one seems to care and most are having a good time!
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H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145
OK 2082
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Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 17 Jul 24 at 9:37am
Not quite sure what you mean by "dilettante"?
Just had a butchers at the stats......the numbers have increased over the last couple of years but this could be bounce back from covid. However, overall since 2016 there has been a big decline, approx. 20%?
These days I think it's true that folk are less likely want to involve themselves in a highly technical sport that requires a massive investment in terms of time, cash and personal commitment. The international and national wider environment has changed and it's affected how people operate and think.
I don't think the answer lies within the sport. Of course there are things individual clubs can do better but ultimately and in general peoples attitudes, priorities and outlooks have changed through necessity.
Loads of sailing clubs and fewer participants? I drive past 2 clubs to get to my club because it's the best choice......has the writing been on the wall all along?
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 07 Aug 24 at 2:16pm
I've introduced 3 new folk to sailing recently, one son in law who is time poor due to work and kids (my grand children)the 2nd a guy I used to water ski race with, my driver, who was doing really well until the golf course recalled him for a few weeks and being my generation on the return he forgot which strings to pull, the third a kite surfer and general all round waterman. The latter has really got the bug, even gone so far as to buy himself a Laser. I also let him have a go on my Windsurfer LT, which is a revisiting of the original windsurfer we all started on but a tad wider and more stable rig, which he got on and sailed straight away. (First time I've seen that EVER). In between times they have had goes on the club boats, Plastic Feva/Vision that sort of stuff, the time it took to get bored varied from 3 to 5 minutes. That's the reason folk don't take up sailing, all the time that forms the backbone of the method we try to introduce people to the sport, we'll fail. Nobody is interested in boredom.
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Posted By: Bandin
Date Posted: 11 Dec 24 at 11:18am
I'm sure many will disagree but that's the nature of opinions... and here is mine...
Participation is falling at a lot of clubs because they aim there sailing recruitment at the wrong demographic. From what I've seen on my travels around the circuit and discussions with club committee representatives, their unwavering belief that children are the answer just isn't born out with the reality at most inland clubs.
I've been on committee at a couple of clubs over the past 20+ years and I've seen clubs work their ass off not only in ideas but also in valuable volunteer time. They all have the same opinion, catch them young and they'll stick at it or will return to sailing at a later date. It's simply not true for the vast majority. Kids will come to the club only whilst they have parents are bringing them. As soon as they reach the age where they have their own transport and are able to make a choice, they invariably disappear. Some, very few will maybe continue at university, some, again very few will return to sailing in later life because they did it as a kid. The return on training youths to sail is tiny. This is born out every Sunday on the water. Look around the club.. 40+ year olds, mainly men. This is the demographic you need to aim your recruitment at if your intention is to increase your membership and build regular participation. They have the time, they have the resources, they're looking for something to fill that time now their kids are at a certain age, they still want to feel young and do something they can compete in and feel competitive at. This obsession by many to push sailing on those who are least interested, or least likely to remain active sailors at the club is the very reason many (not all) clubs are dying. It's a very poor use of the resources available.
As I said, many will disagree. I understand that for some, the very activity of teaching is their reason to be at the club and they enjoy doing so but what they cant deny is the truth. The vast majority of those sailing on any given Sunday at most inland clubs are 40+ year old men. If your intention is to increase participation and want to make the best use of your recruitment resources, you should be aiming your tasters, courses etc at that group and regardless of what you want, it's what brings in the best results that matters in the end.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 11 Dec 24 at 9:27pm
I think you're quite correct with the demographics, but not sure about the diagnosis. My club runs adult training on an evening as well as youth training at the weekend, and I would say we probably get better retention from the adults - at least for a year or three. Not so sure about long term. But whilst you might grow your club by targeting the 40+male, I'm not sure you'll grow the sport. By and large I submit someone of that age has pretty much fixed their recreational options, so you might poach from other clubs, and you certainly will get folk who used to sail returning to the sport now they have a bit more time and cash, but new starters - few and far between I suspect.
The thing is, where do the people returning to the sport come from, and they have to come from the people who learned to sail in their teens and gave it up for work, girls, night clubs and all the other 20s distractions.
So if one is thinking long term one has to do both. You're right, teen sport has horrible retention, in every sport, not just sailing, but with sailing, unlike sports that are for the young only, you are creating quite a large pool of people who can sail a boat and know it can be fun. Twenty years on that is the pool you are going to get growth out of - just provided you are looking for them. But I don't think you're going to get many 40 years olds take up the sport completely from scratch. Apart from anything else its a bit too difficult.
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 12 Dec 24 at 11:49pm
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Bandin . Makes some good points. Certainly a club can not depend on youth alone especially in the short term and attracting and training new older members is important too. But as Jim says this pool of youngsters is often a useful resource as they often return to the sport in their 40s and 50s when their lives are in better in a better place, both monetary and time wise . Certainly most of our new members in the last few years have been in this age group and a lot of those have been returnees to the sport .
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Duncan
D-zero 315
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