Weirs, SUPs and Safety
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy Yarns...
Forum Discription: Tell us your sailing stories
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14017
Printed Date: 24 Jun 25 at 1:24pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Weirs, SUPs and Safety
Posted By: JimC
Subject: Weirs, SUPs and Safety
Date Posted: 30 Apr 23 at 4:22pm
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Came across this MAIB report for a tragic SUP incident. Although I was aware that weirs were things to avoid, it wasn't until I read this report I realised just how dangerous the things are. I suppose as a sailor I've never had the need to go anywhere near one so maybe that's part of my ignorance.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63906ea0d3bf7f328063e844/2022-13-Paddleboards-Report.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63906ea0d3bf7f328063e844/2022-13-Paddleboards-Report.pdf The report itself is pretty mind boggling. Especially for someone like me who hasn't always welcomed the formality and regulation of RYA approved training. |
Replies:
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 30 Apr 23 at 4:55pm
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There are loads of good programs coming from with in the sport , the canoe union and sailing clubs ( Chelmarsh have a terrific paddleboard section ) that are helping with the provision good quality training and just the simple ability of just being able to judge risk. But it’s still a new sport with some people coming at it from a none water sports background. My wife stopped going onto paddleboard fb pages because of the aggro she got for even suggesting wearing a BA and or a wetsuit would be a good idea in certain conditions from a tiny number of posters. I still do think the situation is improving .
------------- Duncan D-zero 315 |
Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 30 Apr 23 at 5:20pm
Indeed my suggestion that drysuit trousers alone (i.e. without a dry top and /or a better than 50N BA) is a less than safe option was viewed with some scron by SUP types... |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 30 Apr 23 at 5:57pm
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A lot of time and effort is being spent in the education of the importance of things like BA if the situation requires it, the correct clothes for different situations and especially the importance of having a quick release waist leash . So hopefully sad events like the one above will become a lot less common . Especially with realisation with in the sport / pastime that proper training is beneficial to everyone.
------------- Duncan D-zero 315 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Apr 23 at 8:30pm
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They were all competent people too, not the sort you would normally worry about, just shows we shouldn't assume. Is there even a suggestion anywhere of how to get out of the backwash?
Edited to add, competent in general with sports, not SUP. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 30 Apr 23 at 10:27pm
portage the weir i get the impression from the MAIB report that it was basically an irretreviable scenario once in |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 8:01am
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Correct Nicola - never ride a weir, it’s not a wave. a buoyancy aid would not help in this situation. They are deadly.
I’ve used my SUPs on rivers and canals, it’s idyllic but it does require some understanding that is not covered by common sense, especially around river flow speed - it can be hard-ish to tell. I’ve never once used a BA, there’s plenty of bouyancy in the craft, however I haven’t sought white water stuff, where they are more appropriate - as is a helmet. If you fall off and get knocked out by a rock …. Always use a lease, that’s a big observation of mine for the newbies who show up with a £200 inflatable from Aldi, along with PSI … and it’s becoming increasingly apparent QR waist leashes are superior in most situations other than surf SUP in real waves. I do think we should consider the huge benefit SUP is delivering to water sports community as a whole, but like all things in their infancy some guidance could be better. Personally I’m appalled that this incident was an organised trip … what were they thinking going anywhere near a weir? Edit: re BAs and never wearing one, that was in reference to canal and rivers. I’ve SUPped with BA 4 times - twice on charter boats in Greece as was a stipulation of the captain/boat insurance, once from a beach rental where it was conditional of hire and finally once at Bowmoor - their pond, their rules … but they awfully cumbersome, chafe around the arm holes and frankly make you overheat far too quickly; they are not a general solution for this watersport, same as they weren’t for windsurfing. |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 8:35am
Re the backwash , I think that’s the problem there just isn’t a way for a SUP or a a swimmer to get out of if. Maybe be a very skilled white water canoeist might be able to power out if he can stay in the canoe? I don’t really know . But anyone with that level of skill and knowledge would understand the risk and carry it round . As mentioned in the report , the local canoe club calls it out of bounds when the river is in this state. 😕
------------- Duncan D-zero 315 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 9:19am
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Only found one suggestion for people trapped, they should try to push off the bottom ( risk of getting feet entangled), or swim along the weir. No evidence that its ever worked though. Kayakers will shoot weirs for fun ! But they have had drownings, length of kayak needs to be double the washback, need to be going fast too. Article isn't recommending doing this, just reporting it does happen.
All above from kayaking Union. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 10:08am
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SUPs aren't kayaks - there's good reason you don't see surfers dropping in on weirs. And even then, it seems risk outweighs reward for kayakers too, given the sensible approach taken by the local club.
Further reading suggests the tour leader who survived was arrested but later released pending investigation for manslaughter. A total tragedy that could probably be avoided, but a quick google would suggest CPS thresholds for criminal negligence were not reached... happy to be corrected if this is wrong. Interesting observation - the three participants who perished were wearing buoyancy aids. It is impossible to conclude that had they NOT worn them, they could have extracted themselves by one means or another. However it is very possible to conclude Buoyancy Aids did absolutely nothing to prevent loss of life in this specific situation. The fourth death was from the second group leader who only re-entered the water to try to save the others. He died a hero, a very unfortunate one. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 10:28am
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Bouyancy aids would probably give the water more grip.
Read on Weir building company website, backwash is equivalent to being held down by a wave, but continuous, they are known in a few countries as 'death machines'. Reckless statement coming up ,,,, I would probably have a go at shooting a Weir, in a Kayak. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 10:49am
| reckless it may be, but experienced enough to take that decision you are. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 2:56pm
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https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/23181407.police-pass-haverfordwest-paddleboarding-tragedy-file-cps/
------------- Robert |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 2:59pm
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https://pembrokeshire-herald.com/70072/police-officer-in-charge-of-paddleboarding-firm-arrested-and-bailed-for-manslaughter/
------------- Robert |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 3:16pm
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4p2wOMjhdg
Note in the last part of video, safety sign covered in watersport stickers. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 01 May 23 at 4:01pm
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I have shot weirs in a kayak when I was younger but only after investigating and making an informed decision. I would never have gone near that one in those conditions. WRT buoyancy aids, I'm a windsurfer, dinghy sailor, a (mostly retired) white water kayaker and recently an occasional SUPer. I always wear a BA in a kayak or dinghy but only occasionally when windsurfing, SUP is a new sport to me so I have always worn ones far but will probably paddle without when appropriate. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 02 May 23 at 10:08am
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https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2022-07-01/five-paddleboarders-rescued-from-bristol-channel
------------- Robert |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 04 May 23 at 8:03am
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. ------------- Duncan D-zero 315 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 May 23 at 1:55pm
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???????? ------------- Robert |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 05 May 23 at 7:12pm
Not my idea of hero. People put their trust in him, and died.
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Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 25 May 23 at 8:57am
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In the 80s I did some white water canoeing, these sort of weirs came up in basic training.
We were told that the only way out was to dive to the bottom and then you might get washed out. This is a risky strategy given the number of old cars, bike frames, shopping trolleys etc, but better than dieing in the back wash. Fortunately never had to try it as we avoided this sort of Weir. ------------- Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 May 23 at 10:41am
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Just heard a public service announcement on the radio, asking Supers to take their phone with them, advised waterproof holders are available. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 05 Mar 25 at 3:27pm
| https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/05/paddleboard-instructor-admits-manslaughter-of-four-people-she-took-out-in-floods" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/05/paddleboard-instructor-admits-manslaughter-of-four-people-she-took-out-in-floods |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Apr 25 at 3:46pm
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A former paddleboard firm owner has been jailed for 10 years and six months after the deaths of four people on a river in south-west Wales.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/apr/23/paddleboard-instructor-nerys-lloyd-jailed-deaths-river-cleddau-wales" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/apr/23/paddleboard-instructor-nerys-lloyd-jailed-deaths-river-cleddau-wales |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 23 Apr 25 at 6:21pm
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Surprised me at first, until you read the details. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 24 Apr 25 at 9:09pm
It really is a terrible case.  I was pleasantly surprised she got custodial sentence.------------- Duncan D-zero 315 |