Boat for father and post-Topper son?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13968
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 11:09am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Boat for father and post-Topper son?
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Boat for father and post-Topper son?
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 12:49pm
Replies:
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 1:46pm
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Lots of trad boats out there that would work, if you don't want a kite an Enterprise is a lovely, well mannered boat, if you do then GP14, Scorpion, Wanderer for starters or the 2000 is a good boat. I haven't sailed a 400 but it has a big jib and kite which might be too much for a youngster. Merlins are pretty full on and aren't cheap for a decent boat. If it was me I'd discuss with the lad whether he wants the challenge of a kite and buy either an Ent or a 2000.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 4:11pm
Plenty of Merlin helms sail with petite female crews so I suspect he'd find it OK. 400 is, by reputation, maybe more grunty? Merlin is a more tippy, so in some ways it's whether it will suit you as a helm. Symmetric might be better for lake sailing.
How big is the lake and what else is sailed? I guess if you are asking the question there isn't an 'obvious' fleet option.
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Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 4:53pm
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Merlin, even an older would, would be potentially dynamite.
Scorp not a bad option.
N12 maybe too tippy.
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Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 4:56pm
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170kg in a 12 might be a bit much!
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Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 5:44pm
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I missed the 170kg
Merlin or Scorpion ok. I actually wouldn't rule a 400 out.
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Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 5:54pm
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Scorpion would be a decent shout, but they are not a big boat, 170kg might be dragging its transom a bit.
Kestrel would be a good shout as it carries weight well and has decent performance. if you want to loose the kite aspect, Albacore is a lovely boat to sail
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 5:57pm
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by A2Z
Thanks all. It’s a biggish lake, but there is no class racing for two man boats other than flying 15s. There are a few 200s, 400s and occasional scorpion. Also Musto skiffs and 100s so big enough for anything I would want. |
Then a 400 would not be a bad choice. You will learn much more with some others of the same class to help you. If it's mostly asy boats, then an asy boat is a good choice.
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 7:44pm
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Inland biggish lake. Who's doing the driving? 100kg crew in a down to weight Wayfarer would go nicely. Apart from the 400, others seem a bit small, especially if son keeps getting bigger. Personally I've always been over canvassed in bigger wind but much prefer that and managing power to looking for more and sitting in more than half the time.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 8:00pm
400 would be great. The kite isn't huge, and I'd imagine loads of teens crew them.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 16 Aug 22 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by Rupert
400 would be great. The kite isn't huge, and I'd imagine loads of teens crew them. |
No teen crews at my home club but some small adult experienced crews in the 400's. Not sure how they go in a breeze.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 17 Aug 22 at 5:34am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons
Originally posted by Rupert
400 would be great. The kite isn't huge, and I'd imagine loads of teens crew them. |
No teen crews at my home club but some small adult experienced crews in the 400's. Not sure how they go in a breeze. |
100kg helm will be fine in a breeze. Light airs maybe less so, transom may drag a bit!
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Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 17 Aug 22 at 7:00am
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Albacore.
Lovely boat to sail.
Roomy, Quick , Fantastic
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Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 17 Aug 22 at 9:12am
If you're going to be sailing with a growing teenager you can't get a boring boat!.
RS400 is the obvious choice, you may be over the ideal weight for a Merlin but if you're not planning on winning Salcombe Week then it won't may a significant difference.
In your initial post you said no trapeze, but then said the club has Flying Fifteens and a Musto Skiff, so why not look at a trapeze boat?. A proper one...Fireball, Osprey, 505, much more appealing than sitting, glued to the water, in a 2000, or hanging out, swapping ailments, with the Albacore gray heads.
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Posted By: Roobarb
Date Posted: 17 Aug 22 at 12:24pm
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Hi, we went through a similar process recently, my son who is 13 had out grown his Tera (by quite a lot) and wanted to sail something with me. I think we are more like 85kg and 65kg . Considered a 2000 and a 200, thought a 400 would be too much… would liked to have a Merlin but really needed to be simpler as I already sail a complex boat so it had to be ‘off the peg’. 2000 was a bit slow/ stable so have got a 200. We might be too heavy buts it fun and we both love it!!
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 17 Aug 22 at 12:31pm
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Originally posted by Sam.Spoons
Originally posted by Rupert
400 would be great. The kite isn't huge, and I'd imagine loads of teens crew them. |
No teen crews at my home club but some small adult experienced crews in the 400's. Not sure how they go in a breeze. |
100kg helm will be fine in a breeze. Light airs maybe less so, transom may drag a bit! If the lad's been helming a Topper solo why not put him on the helm and the 100kg up front.
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Posted By: andy h
Date Posted: 17 Aug 22 at 2:14pm
170kg goes well in a Flying Fifteen inland, e.g. somewhere like Chew Valley, so why not try one of those if they have an active fleet? I had a Fifteen prior to an RS400 and have just got another one. Love both classes.
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Europe AUS53 & FF 3615
National 12 3344, Europe 397 and Mirror 53962 all gone with regret
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Posted By: andy h
Date Posted: 17 Aug 22 at 2:15pm
170kg goes well in a Flying Fifteen inland, e.g. somewhere like Chew Valley, so why not try one of those if they have an active fleet? I had a Fifteen prior to an RS400 and have just got another one. Love both classes.
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Europe AUS53 & FF 3615
National 12 3344, Europe 397 and Mirror 53962 all gone with regret
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Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 18 Aug 22 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by andy h
170kg goes well in a Flying Fifteen inland, e.g. somewhere like Chew Valley, so why not try one of those if they have an active fleet? I had a Fifteen prior to an RS400 and have just got another one. Love both classes.
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Got to admit that I had that thought too - if there's a fleet with decent competition why not support it? Close competition can be just (more?) as rewarding as blasting around on your own in a performance boat.
You'll know best what motivates your son - does he need excitement or might he be happier with something more steady (and will it keep you less stressed, which will have a big effect on his enjoyment)?
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 18 Aug 22 at 2:53pm
Flying 15 is a different kind of sailing. Being a keelboat changes a few things, like it's much harder to get out of the water, less trivial to tow to another venue. The racing is different, often closer, but not the thrills of getting the kite up on a 400. Annual costs likely higher? In keelboats, I think small differences in boat speed can be magnified, so you may want your boat to be as good as the others, while a 400 can get away with not having new sails if you sail it well? Well worth asking for a ride or two. Just be warned it's the first step down the slippery slope of 'leadmines' which can get expensive,,,, :-)
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