Moth Nationals 22
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13951
Printed Date: 27 Jun 25 at 8:49am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Moth Nationals 22
Posted By: turnturtle
Subject: Moth Nationals 22
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 7:22am
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no thread on this folks? I thought the front page write-ups were excellent, great reading and a real sense of competitive camaraderie. Anyone got any feedback on the main technical developments at the bleeding edge of this class that might one day trickle down? The word I'm picking up is Aero - and not in the RS sense, more in the carbon bike sense.
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Replies:
Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 7:57am
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What strikes me most, is that after 4 days racing, 16 races and some pretty decent breeze there were very few DNF/DNCs. |
Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 8:05am
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In terms of tech I guess the interest would be in whether the aerocet was a step ahead of the tried and tested bieker.. looks like it's more on par, but maybe hard to tell definitively with dylan being a bit light and conditions being breezy. Not many exploders in the fleet. Would be interesting to hear what happened to Dave Hivey. Mike Lennon seemed to have a decent outing in his, but again, he's not a big chap, so hard to draw conclusions about the level of the boat. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 9:09am
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Vaguely recall a serialised moth build on here, ages ago, sure it was James Sainsbury, had a quick look but can't find it. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 9:14am
Very much enjoyed the reports and photos, and amazed at the lack of DNF. Seems like they have become a really mature product with some excellent sailors. What’s the bit in this photo? It looks much to wide to just be seam tape and appears to stick up above the boom. 
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Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 9:42am
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I think that is just cloth, same as the cloth used in the main body of the sail. It goes either side of the boom and meets above where the sail returns to single ply.
Brad Funk has the same arrangement here but with the angle you can see a little better what is going on. Talking to Mike quite a lot of work goes in to the battens in this area to keep the cloth smooth around the boom and support it down to the deck, but also allowing for significant movement of the sail relative to the boom with changes in control lines
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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 2:25pm
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At some point I would have thought that the person becomes an aero issue - how long before we start seeing aero clothing / helmets like they wear in time trails on the bikes? I am half joking but also half serious! ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 3:10pm
It's been tried by speed windsurfers but the latest top speeds have been achieved with basically normal windsurfing kit (plus, maybe an impact vest  ). They go a lot faster than Moths, Bjorn Dunkerbeck recently clocked 100kph (with a GoPro on his helmet so not the best aero package...).
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 6:46pm
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125357821166?hash=item1d2fe88cee:g:KLMAAOSwD-liNiKs
------------- Robert |
Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 7:07pm
I think windsurfing the development has been more about the venue than the kit.
Hydro-drag will always trump aero. But I wouldn't be surprised if aero drag is of more concern in a moth due to the apparent wind speeds seen going upwind... you don't see many spray tops. Tope be honest even in the 800 I think there a good gains from ditching the spray tops, getting the helm hidden behind the crew, and trapezing low so that you're bodies only see slower true wind speeds (as long as you don't hit the water). |
Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 7:13pm
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eventually someone will develop a pop up windscreen that smooths out the drag of the human component. ------------- https://skiff-media.teemill.com/" rel="nofollow - T-SHIRTS https://www.photo4me.com/profile/23908/" rel="nofollow - PRINTS |
Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 8:30pm
True but if it does happen there is a good chance it would be banned like it was in cycle racing in the 1920s  ------------- |
Posted By: salmon80
Date Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 12:30am
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I actually find the Moths a bit depressing. Sure they are cool to look at but the cost is eyewatering and the level of dedication required to get good beyond the regular guy or girl... |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 6:36am
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Moths are high above the water, helms are very skilled, racing is close,boats are reliable and the rules are open. If I had the money and really wanted to win I'd be booking time in a wind tunnel just like the cyclists do. I fully expect to see integrated streamlining of the wings based on tunnel data soon. It really is an obvious path to follow. ------------- Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74. |
Posted By: Mark Aged 42
Date Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 6:57am
I have the opposite feeling. As an aging weekend warrior, I smile broadly when I see these extreme boats being sailed so skilfully. I know my limits, but still feel connected to the Moths because we are all sailors. My racing experiences in my Laser are the exact opposite of Moth sailing, yet I bet I could have a beer with a Moth sailor and enjoy yacking about the common ground. Without the development classes, sailing would be a greyer world.
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 7:11am
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I can feel far more connected with Moths than the Olympic circus, the boats have a mast, sail and shrouds for a start. I suspect many of the sailors of the 70s and 80s, like myself, would have loved to have done the Moth thing. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 7:57am
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[---]Wow - loads of great replies. Bringing two points together - I totally agree with the observation of DNFs and how that MUST mean the boats are far more robust than say 5 or 10 years ago. There was rarely too many questions raised about crew skill factor, even in low rider days within the class. I think the class needed this to really raise its game. I find it hard to argue that it's not the class the best sailors in the world aspire to race in... for actual fun. And that's supposed to be what it's all about. As for cost... well yep, it's not cheap, but there does seem to be a route in for aspiring people. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 8:26am
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Email from Y&Y yesterday linking to a article about accessible foiling, on the home page. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 9:55am
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there was a snapped mast on sunday on a green boat, about as far from the sailing centre as you could get of course. Poor guys was waiting for ages for help and only cos of Castle Cove committee signalling I think helped. The moths looked awesome close up as they carved right through us waiting for the start of our racing ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 10:14am
| Sorry, Goose, it's time to buzz the Tower.... |
Posted By: 17mika
Date Posted: 11 Jul 22 at 3:20pm
Well, it was not in the UK nats, but in the Manta, the removeable Aero fairing of the windward wing can be used to cover the helm legs upwind.. let's talk about marginal, marginal, marginal aero gains  My feeling regarding kit right now is that still there is a pretty big difference in the horizontal foils, where, especially downwind, the biekers have a small edge over other boats. Other very interesting discussion is about the vertical foil lenght, where different design came up with very different results! My perception right now is that most people seem to go for short verticals... there was a lot of discussion about the longer vertical helping righting moment when heeled upwind, but I guess having stiffer foils and less inertia makes the boat much easier, hence faster. |