Old club classes
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13926
Printed Date: 27 Jun 25 at 8:56pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Old club classes
Posted By: Gordon 1430
Subject: Old club classes
Date Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 3:24pm
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From another topic what other local classes have you experienced mine are From living in Leigh on Sea Essex, Thames Estuary one designs both were amalgamated into the Estuary one design when made from GRP. Lymington Oxybird another clinker with a handicap from heaven. Lee on Solent Solent Seagull seems to have been much loved and had anchorages off a lee shore which had to be swum out to and released to come ashore if a gale was due. (ideal thing to ask local teenagers to do at night in a building gale. see below info from CVRDA seems more than one version existed for periods before being destroyed. Charles Nicholson designed a 16ft Lee-on-the-Solent One Design; 12 were built and raced until 1930. In 1934 the first of the Lee-on-the-Solent Seagull Classes appeared. These were 15 feet long, reverse clinker, three quarter decked boats with a 5ft 6inch beam. Racing was very active until 1937 when a force 10 storm destroyed all the boats. Not willing to give in readily to the weather, 20 Mk2 Seagulls were built and ready for the start of the 1938 season. During the war about half the fleet was damaged by stray bombs so only 10 Seagulls remained in 1946. Charles Nicholson redesigned the Seagull to be 18ft long with a 6ft beam. 20 of these were built and some remain today. Construction is an unusual reverse clinker with canvas covered plywood decks. ------------- Gordon Phantom 1430 |
Replies:
Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 4:58pm
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Fowey still has Troys (keelboats in which I started crewing my dad, aged about 10) and the abomination that is the "Fowey River" class going stronger than ever. I'd add images if I could make the function work. But no. The hyperlink at least works for the Troy, but not the FR, which is, ironically, a kindness. Why is it so hard on this forum? http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photo/7844" rel="nofollow - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photo/7844 https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photo/318561 Oh boy this post could get me in trouble on my next visit. Hey-ho ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 7:12pm
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Like the look of both of them, fan of wooden boats though, saw the FR's racing a couple of years ago, look underpowered, probably a good thing, capsize and race over. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 7:31pm
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[QUOTE=fab100]
Fowey still has Troys (keelboats in which I started crewing my dad, aged about 10) and the abomination that is the "Fowey River" class going stronger than ever. I'd add images if I could make the function work. But no. The hyperlink at least works for the Troy, but not the FR, which is, ironically, a kindness. Why is it so hard on this forum? http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photo/7844" rel="nofollow - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photo/7844 https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photo/318561 Oh boy this post could get me in trouble on my next visit. Hey-ho /QUOTE] Setting the spinnaker inside the jib is just... dodgy.
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 7:56pm
I saw that looks the same on the second boat ?? ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 8:16pm
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Looks like it is attached to the forestay? ------------- Robert |
Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 9:38pm
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Those spinnies hark back to the pre-war J-class style. Most of the time, the Troys are in the harbour, where the wind can be so fluky it makes Frensham look like trade-winds. It might go up and down 3 or 4 times is half a mile, but rigged liked that, hoists and drops are seriously fast, even when I was 11. Gybing them is interesting too. You get on the foredeck and just roll the pole up and thru the slot. none of this end-for-end nonsense. The tack stays tied to the pole end. As a kid, the sheet would lift me off my feet, but the combing around the half deck would hold my hips like a jamb cleat. Happy days. Typical crew is 3. one to steer, one to crew and one to pump out the sea flooding in over the side. Flat is slow. Let her lean! ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 9:43pm
FRs are only good for filling with cement and using as a mooring for a decent boat. But I have to say, the craftsmanship is a joy nevertheless. There are some brilliant Youtube videos of how Marcus Lewis builds them. But his Troys are better. Search also his story of finding and rebuilding T12, Barbara. Fantastic. ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: The Q
Date Posted: 07 Apr 22 at 7:14am
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There is of course the Norfolk Dinghy.. http://www.norfolkdinghy.com/" rel="nofollow - Norfolk Dinghy At and only at Horning Sailing club is the: Rebel Keelboat.. https://www.rebelonedesign.org.uk/" rel="nofollow - Rebel One Design – Classic Keelboat Sailing in Norfolk and the Reedling keelboat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedling" rel="nofollow - Reedling - Wikipedia Then others Unique to the broads are: Yare and Bure one Design, AKA the White boat, https://www.ybod.org.uk/" rel="nofollow - Norfolk sailing - White Boat YBODYare & Bure One Design Class. » Competitive racing at an affordable price. Spacious and comfortable family wood or GRP half decker The Broads one Design , aka the Brown boat, https://www.rnsyc.net/wordpress/links/broads-one-design/" rel="nofollow - Broads One Design Fleet & Club - Royal Norfolk & Suffolk Yacht Club (rnsyc.net) The Waveney, https://www.topsail.co.uk/boat.php?refnum=2102" rel="nofollow - Waveney One Design (Trailer Available) ARCHIVE | Topsail Marine Yacht Brokers The Norfolk Punt. https://www.norfolkpunt.org/" rel="nofollow - Norfolk Punt Owners Association The Slipstream dinghy (no web page for that sorry) Then there is the Broads Cruiser class over 400 of them... the boats aren't all the same but they are peculiar to the broads.. https://rivercruiser.org/index.php/history-of-the-class" rel="nofollow - History of the Class - River Cruiser Class ------------- Still sailing in circles |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 07 Apr 22 at 7:23am
 Previously of Norfolk (Waveney Valley). Reed lined rivers and broads partially screened by carrs, some handy skills required.
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Posted By: The Q
Date Posted: 07 Apr 22 at 8:14am
yep, outsiders to broads sailing often are amazed at how close we sail to each other, in very confined spaces in very patchy winds... (picture courtesy Gregafloat) ------------- Still sailing in circles |
Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 07 Apr 22 at 8:50am
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Sailing on rivers, broads, tiny puddles etc does teach you good close quarter boat skills and the rules that go with it, because you HAVE to otherwise you just can’t race . When I started doing some opens and the odd nationals , I was very surprised at the number of sailors that sailed at larger waters that didn’t have these skills or even much knowledge of even simple rules , like the ones at marks. So I always did well at the marks and the close quarter stuff, it’s just they would murder me on the long legs of the course which was out of my comfort zone .  As always, the top third in any fleet have no problems doing all these things . ------------- |
Posted By: Gfinch
Date Posted: 11 Apr 22 at 6:32pm
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Royal Harwich One Design keelboat - there were 8 made, designed in 1937 and raced on the Orwell until 2005. One or two are still on the river. ------------- 3513, 3551 - National 12 136069 - Laser 32541 - Mirror 4501 - Laser 4000 |
Posted By: fudheid
Date Posted: 12 Apr 22 at 7:41am
those are just the ones i recall before the coffee wears off..... ------------- Cheers you only me from over the sea...... |
Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 12 Apr 22 at 7:46am
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funny how most of those recalled so far are dayboats with keels rather than the centre board style, i was thinking off. ------------- Gordon Phantom 1430 |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 12 Apr 22 at 8:34am
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I would guess the most numerous 'old dinghy classes' mght be the various Lymington, West Wight, Seavew etc Scows around the Solent? Thames A rater springs to mind as still a functioning class.
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Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 12 Apr 22 at 8:57am
| The only centreboard one I know if is the MRX - a non-clinker version of the Merlin sailed only at Wembley SC |
Posted By: fudheid
Date Posted: 12 Apr 22 at 10:37am
only the three of the above list are dayboats Victories, loch longs, ecod...the rest are centreboarders - kept ashore in a dinghy park and raced regularly (mostly by families) ------------- Cheers you only me from over the sea...... |
Posted By: Mark Aged 42
Date Posted: 12 Apr 22 at 12:04pm
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What future do these classes have? Like the OP, I am from Leigh-on-Sea and the future of the EOD class doesn't look good. The average age of the sailors is, er, pensionable, no new boats for decades, and the boats themselves hold little appeal. Add in the problem of finding not one, but two crew, reduces the number of boats out sailing regularly. It seems a shame that so much history will go out with a whimper, but that's life I suppose
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Posted By: The Q
Date Posted: 12 Apr 22 at 12:18pm
The Norfolk Dinghy the first mention on my list, may not have had many new boats built but is still popular around here. and is a very competitive class..  they must like the varnishing ------------- Still sailing in circles |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 12 Apr 22 at 12:40pm
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Why is new boats built necessarily a measure of success? With all the talk of "Blue green" or whatever the RYA slogan surely keeping old boats going is to be applauded. A little like measuring a country's success by GDP, if GDP includes police officers pay to combat crime and the production of disposable plastic cutlery............... See where I'm going with this?? |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 4:53pm
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Other local classes not yet mentioned: Brightlingsea One Design and Wivenhoe OD from Essex Treaddur Bay Myth and Insect from Anglesey Hoylake Opera OD West Kirby Star OD and so many that have been lost since 1960. I've been adding to the CVRDA Dinghy Database (http://www.cvrda.org) and keep finding many more. Pictures of these classes are what I lack so any contributions would be very welcome. |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 5:28pm
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Many happy hours in a West Kirby Star ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: NickM99
Date Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 5:34pm
| Another Cornish OD... https://www.stmawessailing.co.uk/fleets/st-mawes-one-design-smod/" rel="nofollow - St Mawes One Design (SMOD) – St Mawes Sailing Club |
Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 1:10pm
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Just noticed a race report from Burnham Overy Staithe, among the competitors was a Twinkle Twelve, terrific name!. I can't see why they didn't catch on.
There are a surprising number of these sort of clinker dinghies spread round the country, some mentioned already, others I can think of are the Seaview OD and the Aldborough Lapwing and there must be others. I suspect that they make up a non trivial proportion of the total dinghies sailed on a summer's weekend. |
Posted By: sarg boland
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 4:30pm
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The Hilbre One Design is a racing keelboat, built predominantly of wood with clinker construction. It has a fractional sloop rig, a spooned raked stem, a plumb transom, a transom-hung rudder controlled by a tiller and a fixed stub keel with a retractable centreboard.
------------- Fair winds |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 5:03pm
------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 5:07pm
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In addition to the Solo I sail a Salcombe Yawl. Although Salcombe Yacht Club includes starts for Yawls, the main events are three day opens at the Bank Holiday weekends and the Salcombe Yacht Club Regatta and Salcombe Town Regatta in August. Although some Yawls existed pre-WW2, the class gradually gathered momentum post war when a Yawl was as an important an accessory as a RIB is today. Two milestones were Y61 built by Peter Bungy Taylor, which was considered the first planing Yawl, and prompted some tighter rules to be adopted, and Y141 which was designed my Phil Morrison and exploited the lack of any rise of floor rules. Most of the post 141 boats have been designed by Phil Morrison or Ian Howlett and race in the “Red” fleet. 189 have been built todate. We get around 50 to 60 boats divided across three starts during regatta weeks, and racing in any of the fleets is close and to a high standard, since everyone in the fleet knows the fast route around the harbour, and kinetics are not an option to get you out of trouble. Interest is as high as ever, with some very good younger (it’s a relative term) sailors joining the fleet, and presently there are very few of any good boats available, quite a few having changed hands in the past year. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 5:09pm
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Lovely looking craft in their home harbour the Salcombe Yawl, the related, but not-the-same, Devon Yawl is also nice to sail, particularly good for a day sailing around estuaries or rivers ... IMO ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 6:31pm
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The Devon Yawl mould was taken off a Salcombe Yawl, and the rig reflects the Salcombe Yawl rig back in the sixties. Good fleets at Topsham and the Yealm ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 7:01pm
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How is the mizzen controlled ? ------------- Robert |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 7:46pm
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Double ended sheet, led to side deck by helm. I have a kicker strop. The Mizzen affects balance on the helm quite a lot. It is a mute point whether a Yawl is faster with or without the Mizzen, but you are not allowed to race without one, and must finish with it up. In truth a Salcombe Yawl is a ketch, since the Mizzen is forward of the rudder! ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 9:05pm
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Trying to get my head round what it does to centre of effort, presumably there isn't one as such? ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 9:46pm
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There is always a centre of effort just as there is always a centre of lateral resistance. Adding a jib will move it forward, adding a mizzen will move it aft but it's always there. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 9:54pm
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Missing something OK, why did the designer think he needed a mizzen? ------------- Robert |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 6:02am
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Went on a cruising forum and had a read, useful sail. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 6:33am
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I believe that it originates from fishing boat origins, whilst the early Salcombe Yawls were never intended as fishing boats, this was a configuration back in the day, as a balancing sail. And yes the Mizzen moves the centre of effort back, on a reach it is vital to get the trim right or it weights up the helm. It is also slow to over trim the mainsail upwind otherwise the dirty air off the main shunts straight into the Mizzen. There is a minimum size for the Mizzen and the Howlett boats have gone down this route to reduce drag. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 8:17am
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Hi Davidyacht Are the fleet at Rock similar? ------------- Gordon Phantom 1430 |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 8:40am
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Don't they sail Shrimpers? Big fleet at Poole too ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 10:15am
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There is a mizzen on the in laws day boat. It completely gets rid of lee helm upwind. Of course, it's a bit of an air break, like sailing with lee helm is a water break. So I doubt it's any faster with it up, but it does make the boat nicer to sail. It does raise the question of why you wouldn't just have the sail plan balanced without it. But it does allow you to keep more sail area forward and an open back deck area (good for fishing I suppose). It can also help with manoeuvrability as you can change the CoE quick dramatically by sheeting it on or off. Also keeps you head to wind when hoisting or dropping the mainsail. |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 11:16am
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Back in the day, when a student at Southampton Institute, we had to design and build sailing boats for a race off at the Gosport model boat lake. No radio controls, no moving rudders. The boat had to do upwind, reaching and running legs. I went for a two mast/sail option which balanced beautifully on all points of sail, just had to trim the sheets appropriately. The French guys turned up with kites to attach to their hulls … entertaining but not as effective! ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 3:19pm
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