Diversity and lack of it
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy Yarns...
Forum Discription: Tell us your sailing stories
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13903
Printed Date: 24 Jun 25 at 10:43am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Diversity and lack of it
Posted By: iGRF
Subject: Diversity and lack of it
Date Posted: 28 Feb 22 at 5:54pm
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Wasn't really thinking about it until I was getting bored waiting to leave the show on Saturday 2-3 hours and I'm about done and I made the mistake of coming to the show with the Club Contenderati who frankly are worse than a shoe shopping trip with the breadknife in full Imelda Marcus mode for gossipping.
Couple of weeks ago I went to the bike show at Excel, and tbh you don't really notice who or what skin tint is riding it, it's the bike you check out, but when I think about it, the comparison between that show and the sea of white faces at Farnborough does give the lie to the total lack of diversity in the dinghy world and causes you to wonder why. I swear to God I didn't notice a single face of any ethnicity other than white unless you count mild mediterranean Portuguese in the Pornstar designer. In this day and age, I find it very strange. I was there as it turned out pretty much all day saturday and being bored actually started to look around. Nada. https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13764&KW=diversity&PN=16&title=rya-wokebomb" rel="nofollow - Woke bomb not going to well for them is it? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Replies:
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 28 Feb 22 at 7:32pm
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Not your problem or any one individual, (unless you are persuading people not to sail), """issue""" , if it exists ? Purely responsibility of an organisation. None trained individuals will try to hard and target audience will think "fake". Sailing is perceived to be a moneyed sport, end of. Edited to add, bl00dy difficult too.
------------- Robert |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 01 Mar 22 at 8:58am
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Its a good question and true that sailing is not attracting non-white participants. The same is also true in other sports such as skiing and it is also often discussed on similar forums. I think the question to ask is whether we are excluding or turning away non-white people which would be a big issue or is it that our sport is not attractive to non-white participants. Over the years I have spoken to my friends who are black or asian about this and their initial reaction is that they tend to feel the cold so they avoid sports where they perceive they will be cold and wet. I have no idea if this is actually true or whether it is a reason. I really hope as a sport we are welcoming to anyone who wants to participate and colour or ethnicity should be totally irrelevant! ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Mar 22 at 10:18am
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Well kite and windsurfers don't seem to have those problems, plenty of multiracial participation there, even at our club, but they tend not to be dinghy sailors in fact pretty much everything else I do or am involvced in these days has a fairly normal spread. As I said I didn't even notice it, until left to my own devices but not able to wander off because my phone battery was flat, not something you go round looking for, but our dinghy show seems to be the exception. Weired. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Alistair426
Date Posted: 01 Mar 22 at 10:20am
| If you consider the proportion of the UK population that participate in 'sailing' and then look at that ratio in relation to the non-white population of the UK I would suggest that you are looking at quite a small pool from which to attract participants. Then consider the demographic of the catchment of a significant proportion of sailing/yacht clubs and you might be somewhere close to having your answer. It would be interesting to hear about the diversity within clubs that consider major population centres as their catchments. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 Mar 22 at 1:11pm
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Sandwell Valley sailing club, fifteen minute walk from West Brom Town centre, 100% White English, couple of years ago we had one Asian woman and a family of Poles. The lake is a tourist venue, thousand walk and cycle round every day, sport events at least once a month, we regularly take people who come to chat out, but, no takers. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: The Q
Date Posted: 02 Mar 22 at 9:34am
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Remember the population of the UK is 87% white, Most of the 13% Choose to live in the big cities where there isn't much sailing.. Where I live Norfolk, has under 2% Asian and less than 1% Black population, Our Sailing club is therefore slightly over represented by Asian / mixed race Asian, and as far as I know of our members 1 Black (should be by averages 3) who doesn't race so he's not seen around often, though he may be out in his boat. At the well advertised Horning Boat Show (30th APR this year), I've never seen a black person turn up, and only a few Asians, this a free to visit event.. We have our club Open day / Try Sailing day, at the same time. Never seen a black person there either.. You can't force them to come, we've never turned anyone down as a member.. ------------- Still sailing in circles |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 02 Mar 22 at 10:01am
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Plenty of sailing clubs in the West Midlands, a couple like mine are almost in the centre of town, Midland sailing club almost in Birmingham City centre, Bartley Green sailing club a couple of miles from most places in Birmingham, can't speak for other conurbations. I think there's a sailing club in Liverpool, quite close to the city centre, but I can only speak with accuracy about West Midlands. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 02 Mar 22 at 2:47pm
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Most people I know who sail have parents who used to sail. The reasons for the lack of diversity may largely lie back in the 60s. It's slightly similar with motorbikes. Bike ownership is much less diverse than fast car ownership?
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 03 Mar 22 at 12:23pm
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this might explain it: http://tiny.cc/3j6puz" rel="nofollow - http://tiny.cc/3j6puz
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 03 Mar 22 at 1:00pm
Wow,,,, exactly what I have found  not been called a banker yet though, but everything else. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Mar 22 at 1:20pm
Really? Why does that surprise me?  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 03 Mar 22 at 1:28pm
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Twit ------------- Robert |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 03 Mar 22 at 5:57pm
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10% of my daughters squad is non white and our club has a diverse palette of non English accents. I think we have discussed it before but most people got into sailing through previous generations of their family so by extension someone arriving in the uk two generations ago has probably had other priorities rather than exploring new sports. I think there are a lot of people experiencing sailing through RYA schemes and Andrew Simpson centres which will address the imbalance. ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 03 Mar 22 at 6:49pm
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Put like that it's hard to argue. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 03 Mar 22 at 7:09pm
Should add I have been called a banker in real life, so you are correct  you are still a twit though ------------- Robert |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Mar 22 at 7:25pm
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By somebody who can't pronounce the letter w presumably, and it's t w a t if you must know, or tbat for your mate. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 03 Mar 22 at 7:29pm
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No its twit, t w a t is a different word, less polite ------------- Robert |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 04 Mar 22 at 12:52pm
| posh twit doesn't have the same ring though |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 Mar 22 at 1:36pm
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Makes people think though, when you call them a twit, heritage word. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 Mar 22 at 1:48pm
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To me it's a word that carries an implied smile and no real malice, 'muppet' is another as is 'plonker'... ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 04 Mar 22 at 4:49pm
| Muppet: Most Useless Person Pusser Ever Trained. |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 6:58pm
International Womens day, ironically tidying a few books and came across this 1973 book How Sailboats Win Races, William Smith. Thankfully we have progressed
 ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 7:16pm
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Wow, thought things had started to improve in the sixties, 1973. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 7:23pm
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Being that it's International Women's day, have a look at 261 fearless foundation. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 7:24pm
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1973! I could have believed that sort of thing from a 1950s book on sailing.
Mind, given that the helms role is to sit on the edge and think they are in charge, and the crew's role to actually do everything, maybe the traditional dinghy roles just reflect real life. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 9:56pm
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It seems the first edition of that book was 1964, so we can hope he didn't revise that chapter for the 1973 edition.
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Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 13 Mar 22 at 6:52pm
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It is really difficult to answer this without making oneself sound racist and that as sure as hell isn't the case. But as one who was at the show, all day, both days, either iGRF had his eyes dazzled by some of the exhibits or he didn't see people faces -let's face it, it's not easy for him to make eye contact is it . Can I just point out to him that the young guy sharing MC duties with Hannah Diamond was demonstrably 'not white'. So there you have it - he was at the show, and he was very much 'high profile' and superbly professional. Dougal ------------- Dougal H |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 14 Mar 22 at 2:08pm
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I should just add, shortism is worse than racism, nothing we shortfolk can do about it, even Michael Jackson turned white, homosexuals, don't really have to practise, trans folk don't 'have' to be either, it's a choice, yet here we are without any shortphobic defense protocols to employ, denied jobs, universally prejudiced against, nothing we can do, we are the silent yet universally enslaved to prejudice minority..
Hope that makes you feel really bad. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 14 Mar 22 at 3:00pm
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No one for any reason should feel disadvantaged, with you on that. I think you will find that if you were discriminated against because of your size, it would be illegal. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 14 Mar 22 at 9:42pm
you are absurd, wrong in law and utterly clinically illiterate Graham facts don;t care about your feels gender identity and sexuality are durable biologically mediated facts as seen by the view of the ICD11 you are the kind of person quick to throw around accusations of peopel beign snowflakes when the biggest snowflake is you |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 14 Mar 22 at 10:53pm
That's as may be, but you, whatever you are, are protected by law if somebody calls you out, I am not, which is the point I was making albeit in mild jest, but a fact just the same. With apologies if you feel offended. I on the other hand am not even able to confect offence because denial and humour will always be the excuse. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 15 Mar 22 at 12:23am
Totally agree again . He is the snowflakes snowflake. He tries to make a point about being short , with out realising in the jobs market he is totally protected in law from being discriminated against because of his height . Now if he was ginger he might have a point  ------------- |
Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 15 Mar 22 at 6:55am
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Complains about not being accepted and then displays what to many is knowingly unacceptable behaviour.
Self fulfilling pattern.....again. |
Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 15 Mar 22 at 7:36am
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Diversity clearly means different things to different people. It's a problem in most sports clubs so I don't think sailing is alone in this respect. Diversity does not abolish all of the "isms" either. Some sports with high spread of ethnic participation are still rife with racism. Some sports could be low on racism but high on homophobia etc............and given that we all have a tendency, in the right circumstances, to indulge in a little bit of prejudice of one kind or another. No wonder the waters are muddy on this issue. |
Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 15 Mar 22 at 8:17am
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Very true . The problem is not the sport in general or the the different ways different sports attempt to address any problems. If when people attack the people and sports that DO attempt to address any problems . ------------- |
Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 15 Mar 22 at 8:27am
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I don’t really get this “diversity” thing. Most leisure activities appeal to certain groups and not others-big deal.
I am interested in woodworking-and waste many hours on you tube checking out stuff. That activity is primarily male 30-65 yr olds -many with beards. So not very diverse-is that a problem. I think the people that go on about this are a certain group that will find this wherever they look and make a big fuss about it-to be honest life’s too short-diversity issues won’t be top of the agenda in Kyiv right now! |
Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 15 Mar 22 at 9:00am
And there we have it. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 Mar 22 at 10:04am
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I don't say "cheers big ears" anymore, it was pointed out that children at school are teased for having big ears, so, if adults make a joke of big ears, kids will think it's OK. I grew up at a school where kids were teased unmercifully just for wearing glasses, it affected me for years, I used to find women who wore glasses unattractive, shocking really, just shows how subtlety you are affected. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Mark Aged 42
Date Posted: 16 Mar 22 at 9:11am
| Back on track for a moment. As an earlier poster wrote, most people get into sailing because their family already sails. So how to entice a Chinese family, a Pakistani family, a black family into the unfamiliar world of sailing? What do they see when they look at a sailing club on a busy day? Apart from the lack of people from their own community, they see a lot of people doing incomprehensible, technical things in complex toys. Its daunting. Add in the perceived elitist reputation of sailing clubs, and we have the current situation. Its much easier to go to Halfords (LBS are available!) and buy some bikes for outdoor family sport. |
Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 16 Mar 22 at 10:46am
Absolutely right Mark. The sport generally regards itself as very welcoming and inclusive to everyone, but the perception looking from outside of the sport is just the opposite. That's not to say its a unique issue. Attending a Womens Institute meeting could feel just as intimidating to an otherwise 'tough guy', just because it's outside his comfort zone. There does seem to be some anecdotal evidence that having sailing club facilities used by other parts of the community out with normal sailing times (music groups, toddler groups etc using it for meetings etc) helps break down any negative perceptions locally. ------------- OK 2249 D-1 138 |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 16 Mar 22 at 11:04am
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I work in a large mail sorting hub which is less than 50% white British.
Just chatting with colleagues about what they did at the weekend I get to formulate my own picture of who likes to get cold wet & muddy and who prefers to spend time with family or indulge in retail therapy (Aaaargh to both for me). My assumptions are largely repeated in this Sport England study: https://www.sportengland.org/know-your-audience/demographic-knowledge/ethnicity |