You are a successful marine leisure businessman so I can partly understand your drivers and frustration. 

While we type and witter on about relative differences and subtle nuances there may be a load of potential entrants to the pastime who simply want to hear simple language and be presented with a few clear options.

Get people sailing for the fun of it, that seems a more pressing priority to me for the time being and there are plenty of boats already in circulation to fulfil that role.

To my mind there are two issues going on and I am not sure they have much in common. A thriving small boat industry and mass participation in simply sailing.  

  

You mean - the Laser.

It might catch on, you never know

Probably will have foils and some kind of wing thing that you can hold onto and wave in the air ...

 

But I do understand why you don’t want want to go the slow boat route . But as Jim c has said there are no perfect boats , so compromises are always part of boat choices . 

But what ever you do for god sake don’t call it GRF Lives Matter lol 

If the manufacturers hadn't been so determined to sell us a new board even year maybe windsurfing would be a lot healthier than it is now. The outlawing of custom (read low production volume) boards in the transition from Div 1 to Raceboards, followed by the manufacturers dropping them and trying to sell us something totally unsuitable for 90% of venues and sailors (i.e. Formula but previously dedicated slalom boards or low volume wave boards did similar damage) killed off grass roots windsurfing. 

I think the sport developed up its own a**e, however the same could be said for quite a few dinghy classes, where previously a helm could pick up a newbie crew and be half competitive.  

Someone at our club has recently bought an Albacore as a boat where their wife/crew can be comfortable in the front end … she now says there is actually nowhere to sit … too many controls and ropes, but at least her knees are below her hips when sailing.

Without wishing to drag the thread further off topic (but I'm prepared to risk it...) I partially agree, it was a new sport and rapid development was to be expected, where it all went wrong IMHO was when the initial development had arrived at Raceboards and medium volume short boards that the average sailor could sail. The manufacturers needed to sell more product and the windsurfing media wanted new stuff to write about so they jointly promoted this years 'new big thing' (DSB, Formula or WHY, difficult or impossible to sail by the average club sailor) and ignored the grass roots (as did the training bodies who, effectively, cast of their youth sailors into the wilderness if they failed to make the grade.

iGRF, Don't get me started about the RYA back in the '90's and their 'Team 15' setup who wouldn't organise event that shared the water with UKBSA adult race events, the consequence being that nearly all young racers were lost to the sport when they turned 16 'cos they didn't know anybody racing the adult series'. If they had raced alongside us they would have got to know the local sailors rather than having to join in with a new group (pretty intimidating for a 16 YO who has never raced alongside adults before). 

There are also a number of clubs where racing is in a good place, but not as many as in the 70’s.

The problem with bringing new classes into the market is that you are consigned to handicap racing until there is a critical mass, which might never arrive, and residuals don’t work until this point has been reached.

The only way to overcome this is to come up with a boat that is so much fun that you can accept racing in a handicap fleet.   

If you are trying to draw dinghy racers from established one design fleets it has to be a very good offer.

Details such as daggerboard vs. centreboard are trivial compared with the big picture.

Kieth Callaghan has to be commended in pulling this off with the Hadron H2

I don't think it was quite that simple but there's a lot of truth in that, thankfully dinghy sailing has manage to avoid that mindset, mostly anyway.

I believe that's the basic premise of Kickstarter. But a national fleet of 25 would be a bit marginal maybe even in the beginning?

that's exceptional - I always banked on £1000 per annum, it could easily be worse.

Evening TT . Well you have always been the forums expert on depreciation , with the amount of class jumping you did 

Anyway glad you’re back again however fleetingly. Still enjoying the Spanish sunshine? 

Tbh he looks more like Merlinboy in that picture .

I’ve had loads of disagreements with James over the years  but have never taken it personally.

I cannot say the about Russ. He took against me early on with the Dzero when I said it looked like a wet boat. I went to the dinghy show the year after the Dzero launched, and he wouldn’t speak to me , he just glared at me and my wife when we went to the Dzero stand. He even attacked my wife on fb on a unrelated post about her  not liking water in the face when sailing . He was a silly little boy in my view . 

On the other hand , he is not sailing now and I am sailing a Dzero and loving it . 

Yes sunny Spain is great... certainly a lot brighter than the UK and less of the culture wars and grumpy attitudes. Although moving to the former Euro hub of the America's Cup and there's still only class racing in bloody Lasers; not that I'm bothered really as life with kids doesn't tend to agree with fixed time sports commitments - well not mine anyway 

I've hired a few beach cats when the opportunity takes; also keep threatening to get a foil board to go with my wing sail. (I use it with a SUP if it's a bit breezy for paddling)  Bikes seem to soak up the time and pennies these days.... probably get a boat at some point again though, but we've got real mountains less than an hour's ride from the city... and I've no desire to take riding too seriously.

Glad to see iGRF still confusing me with Russ ;-) 

Not sure why you think nothing is happening, a new lightweight singlehander was announced today. The Aero 6 !

That seems a bit daft, diluting the fleets even further and narrowing the optimum weight range...

Really, well then they may as well crack on with an 8 as well to complete the set. 

more small fleets everywhere. 

Whilst a fan of one design fleet racing, I can see the benefits of having a more perfect rig that works for your weight and venue ... particularly if you are racing in handicap fleets.

Presumably the owners will gravitate toward the rigs that work for them, and maybe a rig that works for one design fleet racing at a particular venue will be promoted.

I can see problems for ROs identifying the titchy Aero 5, 6, 7 and 9 numbers to attribute the correct PY numbers, and there is scope for banditry at one off events, but if RS think that this will result in more participation, then it is probably a good thing.

The different size rigs have different coloured flashes on the sails aft of the window which probably helps but I'll bet many ROs haven't realised...

 

Nor did I ... its hard enough discerning Laser full, radial and 4.7 especially with knock off sails

TBF Laser mast technology has barely caught up with the standard sail never mind something significantly bigger so it's no surprise it hasn't caught on. It probably should have has a taped carbon mast but even so I'd think anybody big enough to benefit would find a Laser a very cramped boat to sail.

To go back to my original point , two of my friends had solutions , both had a flat and a full sail and the class also allows a official smaller sail. Or to use a much older class as a example, the British moth. When I had mine I had a flat sail, a full sail and a slightly smaller flat sail all class legal. The class also has a official small sail that is a lot smaller .

The only boats I’ve ever own that I only had  one sail with were the Lightning 368 and the Dzero . The thing they have in common is they both have soft unstayed masts . 

The bottom line is some rigs will prosper and some will die .

Re identification, I am pushing 60 , sail at a tiny club and am short sighted and I have never had a problem telling a 4.7/radial /standard laser apart and it’s just as easy with the aero if you can be bothered to know the colours . 

Looking at the Aero page on the RS website, have the coloured flashes always been on the sails?  I can see the yellow flashes on some Aero 7 sails but not all, and no flashes on the Aero 9?

Tbh I find the same people that can’t tell the difference between a Laser 4.7 and a Laser standard or the difference between the Aero 5/7/9 are the same people that CAN spot every different version of a N12 or Merlin rocket made since 1950 at a mile away . 

Indeed this is the case 

You could see what they were trying to do by copying the Laser model so one boat covers kids , small adults and normal sized people. 

But they just got the sail sizes wrong. The 5 is spot on , much better than a 4.7 so that’s the kids section of the market covered . The 7 is just too big for small adults and only just big enough for  normally sized people on inland water. And the 9 sail is just to big for the hull length of the boat.

So we now have the 6 which does fill the small adult spot. All they have to do now is sort out a proper full sized sail for normal sized adults , next stop in my view will be a 8.

As was said early , I am sure Pete Barton will be along at some time saying we are both talking ‘ tosh ‘ . 

See I was nearly  right about that at least 

Second hand sails?

"Can I borrow your spare 5 rig, its a bit windy for me/9 rig its a bit light for me and I had a big breakfast?"

The former is more likely, and it *will* happen! In defiance of SIs or not.

The RRS and Class Rules are clear on the need for a unique sail number and in the RS Aero's case, to match the hull. Second hand sails are the same issue for any class, subject to their Class Rules. Sailors need to conform to the rules. If they break them and race management don't enforce the rules then, in this scenario, they may expect identification confusion. 

At any lower key racing it becomes less likely that race management will enforce sail number rules at the risk of putting off participation. That is why SIs often have a leniency of allowing boats to use different sail numbers after requesting and receiving RO's permission. The RO could then at least insist on non duplication or accept duplication in different rig sizes, if they choose.

RS Aero numbers are formed from digital 8s so it is very easy, when permitted, to customise a number temporarily by adding or removing a segment to form a new number that is not already being used at the event/race. In my experience in RS Aeros this is very rare in practice however, as most RS Aero owners already own the rigs they are likely to want to use.

For major RS Aero championships I encourage the use of a NoR/SI where borrowed equipment (only) is allowed a sail number that does not match the hull. That helps the ease of lending and borrowing equipment to promote participation,  avoiding the effort and non environmental wastage of the need to fully change a number for an event and change it back afterwards. 

I struggle to believe a regatta held anywhere in the dinghy sailing world would struggle to come up with the materials or common-sense to enable one competitor to create a unique number of their sail to fit within SI's when needed.  

I've seen boats practically rebuilt overnight at championships for goodness sakes, changing a number on a sail is pretty small beer.

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