OCS rule?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13826
Printed Date: 25 Jun 25 at 4:56am
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Topic: OCS rule?
Posted By: Sapspec8650
Subject: OCS rule?
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 11:50am
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I am given to believe that if you are caught OCS that you are entitled to all due consideration under the rules until (or when) you return to start correctly. Is there a specific rule that covers this?
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Replies:
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 12:20pm
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The short answer is no
21.1 A boat sailing towards the pre-start side of the starting line or one of
its extensions after her starting signal to start or to comply with rule
30.1 shall keep clear of a boat not doing so until her hull is
completely on the pre-start side.
You are covered by the normal rules until you have turned back, but once turned you have to keep out of the way. There are additional complications for example with a black flag start, where you are simply disqualified.
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Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59
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Posted By: Sapspec8650
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 12:32pm
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So, PeterG to advance - If I am OCS, but ignorant of that fact & carry on racing, if I luff an overtaking boat (legally) & there is contact and .... I finish the race (with no sound signal crossing the line) can I protest even if I had never been legally in the race? All hypothetical you understand!
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Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 12:54pm
Case 1
Rule 60.1, Right to Protest; Right to Request Redress or Rule 69 Action
Rule 63.1, Hearings: Requirement for a Hearing
A boat that breaks a rule while racing but continues to race may protest over a later incident, even though after the race she is disqualified for her breach.
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Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 3:52pm
The rule says you have to give way when you are returning to the statrt line - to recross. So if you are unaware you were OCS and continue in the race normal rules apply.
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Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59
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Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 11:26pm
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Rule 21 and Case 1, like the RRS in general, take no notice of a boat's state of mind, awareness or intention. They just consider what boats actually do.
Sapspec: You certainly were 'in' the race. You were entered, you came to the starting area, you sailed about in the racing area intending to racd, and from your preparatory signal, you were 'racing' in accordance with the definition in the RRS.
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Posted By: Sapspec8650
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 9:27am
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PeterG & Brass - thank you for your contributions I shall share your knowledge!
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Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 16 Sep 21 at 8:30pm
Although you may have also just admitted to a rule 14 breach as well.
The damage clause has been removed.
SECTION B GENERAL LIMITATIONS
14 AVOIDING CONTACT
A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible. However, a right-of-way boat, or one sailing within the room or mark-room to which she is entitled, need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room or mark-room.
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Andy Mck
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Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 16 Sep 21 at 10:46pm
C'mon Andymck,
Exoneration for no injury or damage is still there, it has been moved to rule 43.1(c)
A right-of-way boat, or one sailing within the room or mark-room to which she is entitled, is exonerated for breaking rule 14 if the contact does not cause damage or injury.
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Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 16 Sep 21 at 11:24pm
Another rewrite to make it harder to understand
Having the exoneration in 14 was clearer.
Interesting to see that some senior umpires have ignored 43.1at two events I have been at this year. Though what constitutes damage is a moot point anyway.
A scuff?
A scratch?
A crunch?
A hole?
I would say all of those as I end up fixing them on our boats.
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Andy Mck
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Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 17 Sep 21 at 12:37am
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"Damage' is discussed in Case 19.
Is there a special meaning of “damage” in the racing rules? Answer No. It is not possible to define “damage” comprehensively, but one current English dictionary says “harm . . . impairing the value or usefulness of something.”
This definition suggests questions to consider. Examples are:
- Was the current market value of any part of the boat, or of the boat as a whole, diminished?
- Was any item of the boat or her equipment made less functional?
So, no scratches or scuffs don't count. |
Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 17 Sep 21 at 12:42am
Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 17 Sep 21 at 10:46am
The alternate could be is there is a cost to put the vessel back into its previous state? In that case there is a los of value in a scratch as it would have a cost to remedy.
The point has been that particularly difficult with loaned boats. What is the point minor damage you may accept to your own boat, or older boats becomes a loss to correct. The owners usually make that decision, which may be later on than the incident. Also, damage, including significant structural damage, iis not always immediately apparent.
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Andy Mck
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Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 17 Sep 21 at 2:40pm
Andymck, you're quite right. There's a difference between a battered old club Laser, and somebodies inlaid mahogany beauty.
The approach used in MR, based on time to repair shown in Addendum E to the MR Standard SI may be helpful.
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