Oh - makes sense. So all the duff sailers with older boats, tin-rigs and obsolete sails will be excluded from the PY calcs then and the better guys with new boats, carbon rigs and better sails will.....oh sh*t, hang on.....

Just the same with any class, the PN takes a couple of years to catch up after changes, and they all change, if not Enterprises would still have wooden masts, cotton sails and plywood hulls.

I can think of a number of classes that have different PYs depending on the age of the boat and the rules that related to them at that point in their development - Flying 15s and Cherub spring to mind but there are probably a number of others if I put my mind to it.

Only one way to find out for yourself rather than 'take as read' all the web babble either way - so try one !   You know you want to really so what is stopping you ?

The class has boomed  especially in recent months and is now heading towards its largest Nationals ever in 2021 with nearly 70 already paid up entrants fully committed with weeks to go before the event at Paignton.  It has been hard to find a decent used one for a couple of years now and 'good used' prices are still rising with many boats selling by word of mouth before they are even advertised....    

As for PN ... well really !  It has varied over the years from as low of 1021 to the mid 1040's but is currently 1033... but only if you point it in the right direction of course.  Do note the class does not set PN's for the Blaze anymore than the alternatives do...  (...Cue the usual suspects and the usual well worn 'arguments' on this forum - but come on there the class racing is what we are all told it is about surely )

     

H2 - I mostly race 'an old Mk2 Blaze ' as you might call it at Burghfield SC - it is now 16 years old.  However it is almost as fast as my 3 month old 'new' boat.  The difference is that it has been maintained at a high level for nearly all of its life and with an eye to its performance. Many older boats in all classes are poorly maintained with tired sails, ineffective slot sealers and chipped, rough and ragged foils.  Frequently their control systems need updating and/or need fittings replaced and many leak and have absorbed water over the decades.  

But if you are really prepared to work hard to optimise and maintain an early older boat in my class and many others, spend a few quid periodically on any needed replacements and find out and apply optimal rig settings they can still be highly and truly competitive.  Even tired old ones can be transformed with the right amout of TLC.   My 16 year old 'early' boat is within a couple of kg of minimum class weight, my 'new' one exactly on minimum weight - neither leak, both use the same systems and I use exactly the same settings on both.  The 'new' one perhaps is a small fraction quicker on some courses but that is not an absolute certainty on any particular day.   Would I give preference to the 'new' one for a major competition - Yes of course ... it is possibly a smidgeon quicker and I've just pimped and polished it for the Nationals but they look almost identical on the water !   Would I use the 'old' one say for the Nationals if I had to ? - Absolutely it is a great boat as well and only needs that final polish, and it is fully capable of beating very many 'new' boats as well (and at a fraction of the cost ...).   

PS - I would not put too much money on the new sail not 'working' on tin masts if you are not prepared to lose - the standard carbon mast is unchanged and was originally and untypically developed to emulate the critical standard tin mast characteristics on the Blaze thus maintaining a common standard sail for the class.  This was to ensure that they and sails could be swapped in and out at will ! ...   I'd be surprised if this had not already been tried /confirmed recently with the revised Hartley sail.. 

Those classes all kept the sail area the same as the original though I think - new Blaze sail is larger than the original.

I'm quite sure any decent sailmaker who wanted to could make an exact copy if they have a new sail to copy the panel shapes from and I don't think subtle differences in shapes from one sail to another can be given design protection.

I know it's certainly happened in open classes for a sailmaker to get hold of a new sail from a competitor and make a copy of it in a few hours - only to find out their competitor's sail was actually a copy of their design in the first place! 

In the past (2001) when the sail was changed from the Topper original we REDUCED the sail size by about 7-10% - a bit of trivia form the past of course but the boats appeal took-off as it could be sailed by more regular sized club helms and was possibly faster except in the very lightest breezes.

The Hartley sail is really very very close to the North.  Having examined it against an almost new North on the weekend the only obvious difference is that the very top is 'managed' by a single primary batten now - past of the cost reduction requirement.  The 'old' sail used a couple of sewn in battens as well as the traditonal set-up and the profile was slightly curved rather than 'square-headed' (incidentally Both the Halo (larger) and Fire (smaller) Blaze sails, developed later, already feature a square head profile.  Overlaying the North and Hartley sails showed a slight redistribution in area due to the battening change and luff curve and if anything it is slightly shorter in the foot.  

The class is by very far not the first SMOD to go through sail supply changes... These things happen and are a fact of commercial life.  Many of the RS classes ditto and some others have multiple sail suppliers who build to a common pattern.  All that has really happened is that Hartley have taken the opportunity to bring the 'standard' sail in line with the other Blaze sails - and reduce their costs along the way. 

In the most recent Warsash meeting the results of the Hartley sail equipped boats were widely spread down the results.  The fact that they were carried to first and second places as well is not a surprise in the class as both helms are recent National champions - it helps !  There will no doubt be a few more equipped with the Hartley sails at the Nationals in a few weeks time ... should be good with nearly 70 boats already entered and paid up in advance !  For us another Nationals milestone ... 

Sam - Static setup, at least for me, appears to need no alteration from the North.  Those who like to have tighter lowers say they have slackened their lowers a tad as the luff curve is slightly different but I've always run my lowers at the slack end of the range so no change for me... It has required no rake, tension or other static set-up alterations.  It may be that 'time on the water' leads to a few adaptions in the way you apply mainsheet tension imo but so far I'm changing nothing for now..   This was rather reassuring as I also have a perfectly good North as well and it is convenient to say the least to still have interchangeable sails - I would not bet on the 'new' sail necessarily being faster in all conditons, as fast would be ideal as it was the aim but it looks very nice and is obviously lower in price.....  See you at Paignton.  

 

Originally posted by Sussex Lad And the class is now looking like a "one design" that isn't. It appears to have allusions of being a development class.........Modern times huh?  sections of the community who are factually and by conception one thing but desperate to be something else?.....mind you, I can't think of many more "ease of use ;-) improvements" that could be made without making a total mockery of the one design ethos.

Can you name an established 'one design' that hasn't been improved (Foxer maybe, even the Sunfish has standard and 'racing' rigs)? The Blaze is hardly a 'development class' (Moth for example), and it's not even close to being a 'restricted class' (like a Merlin). If you sail on open water I guess they are a little bit of a bandit but the opposite applies on a confined sailing area.

And so we are now in the familiar territory of PN ... and so quickly.  It is as traditionally British to do so on this forum as stuffing down cream teas while watching green field leather and willow combinations in the Summer.  Why not just skip all the preliminary waffle trying to justify the agenda and start there in the first place ?  ...(You know you want to - don't you ! )

PN figures are not provided by this class, or any other class to my knowledge and never have been.  Speculating about where the numbers should be because the sail is being supplied now comes from a new maker is just that .... speculation.  If it makes the boat quicker the PN will change, slower and the numbers will equally move that way.    The class thrives on class racing via its open circuit and National Championships both 'Sea' and 'Inlands' anyway and this year it is likely to break all records.  The key driver for the new sail was to reduce costs (+ increase margin presumably) and Hartley decided to bring sailmaking 'in-house' to do so.  There had been was a concerted push and shove by some owners for a reduction in costs for a couple of years - and the builder responded in a way that perhaps squeezes the sail 'copyists' out there as well. (and not a bad thing imo at all !).  When any change in life comes about it is unlikely to suit everybody in any walk of life, business, market boat class or whatever.   One thing is certain though without some changes, many 'forced' on builders and classes, and some of course promoted by them, classes tend to die off in the medium to long term.   Getting the amount of change modest and justified, more often limiting it in fact, and getting the timing of such introductions is critical.

Definition of a Bandit - a boat sailed by someone that beats you. (... but when you beat them it is because althouth that someone has a 'superior boat' they are c**p at pointing it in the right direction and 'you' are very clearly the better helm and prevailed.   Same as always.

Or you could just try one....

So  ?  And the 'debate' shifted of course ... they tend to ... welcome to real world forums.....