Rules and rudders
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13773
Printed Date: 28 Jun 25 at 8:41pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Rules and rudders
Posted By: Sailerf
Subject: Rules and rudders
Date Posted: 20 Apr 21 at 3:09pm
| Hi would any one know if you are permitted to sail part of a race with a rudder raised for a period to gain an advantage. ie raising it to sail over an obstruction instead of going around it or sailing up a shore to get out of the tide. To be clear hitting the bottom and it coming up and not putting it down until you are back in enough water with out taking the piss is something quite different. Thanks in advance for you input. |
Replies:
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 20 Apr 21 at 4:17pm
|
Commonly done on lakes with lots of weeds. I have seen people sail a whole race with the rudder up, especially on very light wind days! Never heard or thought it was an issue ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 20 Apr 21 at 5:25pm
|
There are classes which require the rudder to be fully down at all times, but that's a class rules thing. There is nothing in the racing rules of sailing requiring you to sail with a rudder at all!
What isn't permitted is to use the rudder for paddling or sculling, to propel the boat or even scull the stern round in a tack, but although having the rudder part up may make such illegal actions more effective, its not banned per se. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 20 Apr 21 at 5:45pm
|
There is also a substantial increase in load through the rudder and associated fittings, possibly leading to breakage. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 20 Apr 21 at 8:15pm
Dagger rudder would sort that one Interesting situation where someone can establish room going down a beach having little control, while the boat with the rudder down might be more in control, but has to give room ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 9:28am
|
As others have said nothing in the RRS but class rules may prescribe that the rudder must be fully lowered during racing (like the ILCA/Laser for one). ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 9:32am
|
I'm sure I have heard of the Aussie Musto Skiffs regularly sailing with dagger style rudders half up in some conditions ------------- OK 2249 D-1 138 |
Posted By: GML
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 9:50am
The ILCA/Laser class rules actually allow you to sail with the rudder raised in shallow water: "14.(j) The rudder shall be maintained in the full down
position except whilst racing in water less than
1.5m deep unless otherwise specified in the sailing
instructions."
|
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 9:57am
That;s new since my ILCA/Laser days then..... Most inlands clubs that suffer from weed tend to turn a blind eye for club racing on that though. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 9:58am
I do on my D-Zero if sailing in a shallow lake with weed. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 11:26am
|
Most people I see with rudders up is because they haven’t noticed or because they don’t actually know they should be fully down. ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: andy h
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 12:29pm
|
I'd love to see a protest in the ILCAs where someone contends that the water was actually 1.6m deep during the raised rudder racing. ------------- Europe AUS53 & FF 3615 National 12 3344, Europe 397 and Mirror 53962 all gone with regret |
Posted By: seasailor
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 2:56pm
|
I thought Laser/ILCA rudders were always half up. I wouldn't fancy trying to race one with the rudder any further up than it already is.
|
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 5:16pm
|
Often tempted to protest Lasers in handicap racing when my rudder is up too as we weed dodge. Peace, harmony and a sense of fair play means I never have. I just put on my swept back Firefly rudder and watch the weed fall off. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 22 Apr 21 at 8:11am
|
Rudder and daggerboard, once you are planning at speed then you don’t need that much lateral resistance and it helps stop the boat tripping up and becomes easier to control.
------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: deadrock
Date Posted: 22 Apr 21 at 11:38am
|
"That;s new since my ILCA/Laser days then..... Jeffers, not sure when your Laser days started, but the 1.5m rule was brought into the Laser Rules in 1985 as part of a major re-write. It's been in the Class Rules ever since, though to confuse the unwary it was moved from Rule 7(b) to Rule 15 in 2008. On me 1.5m is about shoulder-height.
|
Posted By: fudheid
Date Posted: 22 Apr 21 at 12:43pm
Think this has come up on rivers in light breeze and the protest cincluded that a raised rudder (hinged style) when moving was actually sculling so illegal. hard to prove but it certainly seems fairer. lifting the blade to free weed and then return to full down is acceptable. personally on the river racing we do i had a chat with the laser sailors lifting rudders so they could get to within 2ft of the bank. Tricky as if your class is a down class and some are 'cheating' then it is irritating. A bit like seeing people standing on the shore with 30 secs to the gun.
 ------------- Cheers you only me from over the sea...... |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 22 Apr 21 at 9:35pm
|
A bit like seeing people standing on the shore with 30 secs to the gun
Rule 45? ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: fudheid
Date Posted: 23 Apr 21 at 9:55am
yes really! another quiet chat moment with laser sailors... ------------- Cheers you only me from over the sea...... |
Posted By: Strangler
Date Posted: 23 Apr 21 at 11:24am
| A cheeky variation on this theme - Hornets reaching, cheating the current inshore going over a very shallow spit. Rudders up, board up. One helm jumps out of the boat running along side steering! Legal? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Apr 21 at 12:20pm
|
Posted By: Norman
Date Posted: 23 Apr 21 at 1:57pm
| Surely partly depends whether your class rules dictate the shape of your rudder. If the class rules insist on it being measured in the down position you'd be out of class sailing with it raised. |