Bottlescrews???
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13771
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 12:47am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bottlescrews???
Posted By: iGRF
Subject: Bottlescrews???
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 2:58pm
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I swear to God one appeared to have undone itself during this mornings race, is it a thing? Can they unwind if you don't really tighten the locking nuts (which makesthem ridiculously difficult to then adjust)
I'm using them alongwith staymasters on the shrouds so I can adjust the rig rake quickly, but iswear when I was de rigging one shroud was massively looser than it was when I went out. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Replies:
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 3:07pm
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Sounds about right, the nuts really are needed! Can't stand the things. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 3:13pm
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I can't stand chainplates and fiddly circlips I swear it's probably what keeps me from travelling all the f**king about mast up mast down, lighting boards not working, boats fallen off the trailer, if there's one thing needs a better design solution its shroud attachment. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 3:21pm
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Yes, its a notorious problem. Locking wire as well as the nuts is supposed to be the right solution. Obviously that makes them even more inconvenient.
Personally I use lashings and forged shackles to adjust shroud length and attach shrouds, but that's no good if you want it adjustable with repeatability. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 3:32pm
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Chainplates and fastpins maybe? But I'm just a little nervous of fastpins myself. The locking nuts do need locking up reasonably tight or the bottle screws will loosen, finger tight ain't gonna do it.
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 5:04pm
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iGRF - the solution is easy get a Laser, you know want to ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 5:13pm
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Get some wing nuts, you can do them up tight enough not to work loose. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 6:51pm
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Wingnuts, chain plates, get a Laser... Here's the news, it's 2021, the future you were never warned about..
We have that wire adjsuatble bidning system on snowboard boots boesystem is it? They use it on harnesses as well, dial the adjustment, surely something like that should be designed, where is the R&D in dinghyworld? Then again what I really want is that Merlin system where you pull or release on rope to adjust the rig. Then again I want to be able to slacken the lee shroud to let the boom out further downhill, just a little flick switch, not much to ask, maybe one of those lever things contenders use on their forestay. Oh and fast pins? Had the whole lot fall down thanks to a fastpin, so thanks but no thanks. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 6:57pm
So your task Jim should you choose to accept it, is to find and post the secret Merlin diagrams and post them here.. Naturally your actions will be disavowed by the agency should you be caught and all knowledge of your existenced wiped. (With acknowledgements to the Mission Impossible franchise)  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 7:20pm
| I agree the best way I found was a braid eg dynema going up and down a few times to give a purchase. To mark the position I used to whip on twine at critical positions in bands one two and three to mark the “fast” positions |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 7:28pm
Got to see that, any pictures? Not quite sure I follow, braid, how does that work? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 7:30pm
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With the market moving towards single handed boats the R&D has gone into sail and mast development without the need for shrouds. Simple systems where a couple of controls can control the rig are the future. Obviously multiple rig sizes are also popular and probably considerably cheaper than all the complexity of letting off shroud, adjusting rake etc etc ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 7:44pm
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When you can trapeze off an unstayed rig I'll agree with you and other than the D0 rig, all the others are pants, you can't call an Aero rig for instance "the Future","days of future past" maybe, simple possibly and I have no problems with simple or the Aero in particular, but my boat came with shrouds and I need to deal with them eficiently and easily and so far I've not come across a system that enables that.
I did consider a trapeze locking system so you could use them on an unstayed rig by securing the opposite side by a hook, I thought that might work then I wondered what might happen when the boom swung out. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 8:19pm
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There was an unstated trapeze boat back in the 80s, alloy mast. If the market thought a new trapeze boat would sell they could easily produce an unstated trapeze boat. Too late on a Sunday to do the maths . Like it or not any growth or at least slowing of the decline is in existing classes, hiking boats and single handed boats. Adding beam, wings etc are replacing trapezes and D-One, RS300, Waszp prove an unstayed mast is up to the job. ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 8:59pm
The base of that mast was the size of a tree trunk. Mind, 40 years on the technology might reduce that somewhat, but physics is still against you. Trapezes are more fun than wings. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Apr 21 at 9:12pm
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What you need is a telescopic goose neck, one string to lengthen, when it reaches the optimum length, it articulates to allow boom to go further forward. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 6:12am
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Sailing by the lee may be faster but it doesn't make it right.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 7:20am
Had another thought has a shroud ‘traveller’ arrangement ever been tried? So they move forward and aft as you rake the rig? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 7:36am
| By braid I mean a rope with no cover - just the high strength core-doesn’t stretch and can be easily spliced back onto itself using a fid. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 9:00am
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Sailing by the Lee gives you more efficient "Lee bowing" ------------- Robert |
Posted By: mongrel
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 9:01am
Tasars use this, its only control by a 2:1 line & cleat at the base of the shroud, on a development boat you could add control lines for this method.
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Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 10:03am
| Using a Highfield lever (invented by Mr Highfield acc to Wikipedia) to let off the leeward shroud is well known, however, getting forwards and to leeward in a singlehandedly to put it off and on again might be fun to watch |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 12:08pm
Thanks for that intel we have a couple of tasars racing at our place now I'll check them out.
Is that the lever the Contenders use, it's only on things like a dead run in light conditions so I can get the boom out to the max, good to hear it's a 'thing' and not one of my nutter moments. Oh and thanks for all this, it's one of the really good points of this forum, all this experience wasting away in front of computer screens..  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 12:18pm
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Some British moths recently have used highfield levers on the shrouds , but they are narrow so putting them back is not a problem. . It seems to work ok ( Though i did once see a mast jump out of the mast step because a sailor managed to let off both levers at the same time) . Most modern British moths have adjustable shrouds with the controls led to the other side of the boat but then have a fixed forestay . Most new british moths have either adjustable forestay or adjustable shrouds . Never both , I have no idea why
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Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 12:50pm
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Things like Albacores have pulley systems on the shrouds so you can adjust the tension by pulling string rather than trying to lose the tips of your fingers with a Highfield lever. I suspect you could double that up with a track like the Tasar as well to give you all the adjustment you could wish for, well until it all comes off in one go and your mast jumps off the foot and punctures a hole in the deck that is. ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: Jon Meadowcroft
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 1:44pm
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This shows a N12 from 20 years ago with tracks for shrouds. The tracks allowed you to square the boom and maintain rig tension. The length could also be adjusted. Lots of string and expensive kit. It was a £500 upgrade (back then) on a simple cascade system. Quite a few boats went for it though and it certainly has its merits. https://www.national12.org/boats/index.php?objecttype=boat&action=viewdetails&id=3453" rel="nofollow - https://www.national12.org/boats/index.php?objecttype=boat&action=viewdetails&id=3453 Note that the mast is keel stepped. Mast will have had a bin securing the mast heel into the mast step. It would not be recommended for deck stepped....
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Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 4:50pm
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Grf you'd love the shroud fixings on our old Albacore - two hooks just below the side decks onto which the eyes on the shroud ends fit - so easy to set up. The hooks are on top of muscle boxes which have lines out to cleats so are held under tension and can't slip out. And above the decks in the shrouds are shroud levers - flip up to release, pull down and lock before rounding the leeward mark.
I find the levers easier to operate than the rope version on the newer Albs, possibly because of the positioning. |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 5:53pm
My IC used a cascade system, had a deck steeped mast and I never once eased the leeward shroud fearing an accidental gybe. Was sailing at Ullswater at the time where I saw two cruisers pass each other on reciprocal courses - both flying a conventional spinni dead down wind. ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 19 Apr 21 at 9:02pm
Sounds cool, all these great ideas, all on different classes, imagine if there weren't fixed class rules eveerybody could enjoy all the good things in some sense of uniformity and wouldn't the pricing have fallen if everyone started using similar stuff, you know like even the holes in the chain plates being the same diameter might have helped. Were Albacore a big deal? Like back in whatever day? Genuine question, I wasn't really that around and other than 505s, Scorpions and GP14s (because their owners were so tight when they came into the old Racing Sailboat shop we took over and nobody wanted to serve them) I didn't know a great deal about what was going on in the seventies when I guess they were big. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 20 Apr 21 at 5:52am
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The Alb has always been a 'big' class but perhaps not as big as some other classes.
The boats are fantastic - very quick for a hiking boat with no kit and beautiful - especially when you consider how old the design is The modern Ovi hulls seem perhaps a bit quicker than the old woodies but not much in it All sorts of crew weights are competitive too The modern set ups are amazing - allowing massive adjustment on the water - rake, rig tension, shrouds, etc |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 20 Apr 21 at 11:40am
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Had a look for Albacores... not exactly what I'd call value for money, best part of 12 grand (Pinnel & Bax)for a tin masted twin sail and sails that look like dacron and not that sophisticated selling for over £800 quid, and it's advertised as a beginner/entry level boat.
It says it's a 'National Class' is that why the price hike? I mean you couldn't exactly call it a premium product, makes even the ROLY POLY 200 seem a bargain..
But thanks for pointing out the systems, if ever we get a chance to go to an actual dinghy show ever again I'll have a look, if I'm spared that is, 2nd lethal injection today. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 20 Apr 21 at 12:07pm
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In fairness to the Applecore it might soon see a spike in popularity for the ageing demographic that places simplicity of rig, ability to carry weight and not moulded in polyethylene high on their criteria. Not so mobile around the boatpark ... but at least there are two of you. Not sure that this group are too price sensitive. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 20 Apr 21 at 2:15pm
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Not all progress is actually progress, super light boats are less stable and less forgiving to sail, super fast boats don't suit small inland waters (yes you can sail them inland but it's far from ideal). Some of those '50s/'60s designs like the Albacore and Enterprise were right from day one and much better suited to the lakes many of us sail on than more extreme boats. The RS200/400 are a success because they is not too light, radical or challenging to sail.
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 21 Apr 21 at 12:32pm
| Since the Albacore is a one design hull that can be fitted out much as you like, there are plenty of good older boats around at a lot lower prices than your £12K |