Over the last few weeks I've been writing an article on how and if we should change the Portsmouth Yardstick system to make it fairer. It'd be great to make this as comprehensive and accurate as possible so I'd appreciate your feedback. 

Here's hoping some change will come of it (though I doubt it will). 

Then you go and poke the bear 

Deck chairs out with favorite snacks and tinnies on the table alongside ... 

But, I don't see us using the same system in 50 years time. Technology will allow us to be much more precise in the handicapping. We have the tech to do this now. We probably need to go one step at a time rather than leaping ahead.

Totally agree . Will send you an extra bucket of popcorn as a prize if anyone posts anything new and or interesting 

The PY system is not perfect, but it is simple enough to be able to do quick calcs in your head to gauge your performance on the water, is based on factual returns (not that I understand exactly how it works) and time-on-time generally works really well compared to time-on-distance. Having a single number isn't perfect but it prevents arguments about whether it was 8 knots or 10knots and if the clubhouse anemometer reads the same wind as on the water etc.

Average lap racing also helps keep both the fast and slow boats sailing in roughly the same conditions. The hard part is how the crew skill factor is applied as nobody wants to hear they are considered less skilled than their clubmates. Maybe automated results systems could help smooth that out and/or generate reasonable personal handicaps.

As ever I'd recommend any would be handicap improver to read "Yacht Rating" by Peter Johnson. Many rule makers or handicap makers have tried over the centuries, but there's never been a way to stop competitive humans seeking a competitive advantage anywhere it can be found it seems.

The right formula could allow for that, factor in year built, material type, construction type into the formula?

Again I recommend having a read of the 'Yacht Rating' book for a fascinating insight to how the same issues on calculating handicaps come up in every generation that tries. If it was simple it would have been fixed decades ago!

'Formula' racing inevitably tends towards evolving into a class of its own of course - people will build or select 'their' boats in relation to the rules applied.   Then if this group want to race more widely you have to set a handicap for your formula in relation to other formulas or 'classes'....   Some existing classes are in effect 'formula' classes already, they are often called 'development classes'.

(The road to hell was always paved with good intentions .... )

What you could do is have a handicap for each year- the right software could easily work out what the handicaps should be. 

I agree with you the desire to win can make you unethical (but by no means in all cases). People like that will always exist. If you stop them winning they'll just go elsewhere. 

It's a difficult balance but I think the easiest and best solution is how we do it- one race- two sets of results.

The current system does give every dog it's day, Solos and Ents in the light on a duckpond, 5ohs and I14's on the sea in a breeze and all points in-between.

Even this isn't infallible. Take an Enterprise for example - a 1980's Lufkin/Lloyd/Ovington/possibly other Ent is likely to be fast, even at national level. Heck, even some older boats by Avacraft/Bacon/Smith and Davies/possibly others are likely to be fast. But, take an early Holt FRP Ent that's been ragged, and it's likely to be slower. Playing devils advocate a bit here, but some things can't just be reduced to formula. 

This isn't unique to Ents - an early Woof Albacore that hasn't been abused is most likely to be faster than a Fosrite glass boat. A Cory GRP Streaker is liklely to be slower than a Gillard wood of the same vintage. Take the Wooden Solo that GRF mentioned in another thread. I'm sure there are more examples - there are always outliers, and development isn't always linear.

And don't get me started on how this would work for some development classes... 

Isn't that called 'The Great Lakes Handicap"?

the issue isnt the numbers, its how the numbers are percieved to be attained and maniulated thats the issue, just read back on this forum for evidence.

a clear and open policy from the top would allow far more local adjustments than are currently seen and perhaps peoples percieved enjoyment would go up.

So that’s your reason why things should stay the way they are?

Not that anyone will act on it, but it will mean we will get another 10 page of ‘ interesting chat ‘ 

I think I have been to most of the Great Lakes races for the last few years and I do not recall ever seeing you come along to race? Please do correct me if I am wrong. My point is - all this moaning and yet when there is a system that is better than the RYA one you dislike....have you actually supported it by showing up and racing?

Well its not a great reason in my opinion.

Old boats getting the odd good result, is generally down to a good sailor and a specific set of conditions, i.e. light winds, or extremely strong winds.  Each class probably has the odd one or two old boats capable of a good result on their day, it isn’t many.  No one who wants to get into a class to have a good nationals/worlds thinks, “what we need is a 25 year old avacraft to do really well”!

I’ve sailed development classes too, its amazing how you can have a range of different designs and shapes but find there’s not much difference in speed at the front end of the fleets.

I think a good formula system could work, and average wind and sea state could be factored into the formula too.  It would be nice to go racing and not know who’s going to win until the formula spits the result out.

It can be done on a class by class basis (the PYC aren't going to do it so by the CAs will have to). Merlins have a fairly simple answer, freeze the age at a specific year instead of a certain age, anything pre Canterbury Tales (with special dispensation for any old design boats built after the first 'Tales) get an allowance (Solo's likewise, but pre the first FRP boat). In the case of the Merlin make the allowance for old boats with a modern carbon rig and have an extra allowance for an old tin rig. That's it, one number, two allowances* (let the CVDRA take care of the real oldies). The Merlin a have a pretty comprehensive database of boats so it should be easy enough to keep track.

* Be conservative with the allowances, as Old Bloke says, old boats are usually sailed by less accomplished sailors and you still want the best crew to win, you just want to compensate for the age factor of the boat not the sailors lesser skill level. If you overdo it some highly talented pot hunter is going to buy an old boat and clean up.

My 30 second contemplation :