I've taken him out in my Fireball when it was very light (obviously he wasn't trapezing or using the kite haha) but I want something that we can sail "properly" in reasonable breeze.  Obviously I have no desire to put him off, so I won't take him out in big winds until he's older and wants to do it.

We may wish to do the odd club pond race, but we won't yet be thinking about Nationals etc...let's see if he enjoys it first.

Needs to be fairly cheap, and ideally nothing wooden unless it's in very good order/epoxied.  I thought of the following...

N12...cute little boat but is it too tippy?

Mirror...seems a bit "obvious" and not very comfy to sail but could be good when he starts helming..

Miracle...do they all have 'orrible aft sheeting?

Tasar...is it a bit fast, and is that spanner hard work for a small child?

RS200...probably out of budget but if I found a knacker could that be an option?

Anything else?

We sailed a National 12, the key benefit being it moves nicely in light winds so everyone is interested.

If it does get windy the jib remains small.

Small children do not need the complication of a kite and you don’t need the frustration of having one and not using it.

A key factor is how big you are.  There is a substantial difference between a 90 kg adult sailing with a small child and a 70 kg adult doing the same.

You seem to know the options!  Take it easy.

If its a small pond I would avoid assyms as they need more space, its a shame as a 2000 would tick all the other boxes for me.

A Mirror is tempting, I had one as a kid myself (11973 Miss Piggy) but that gunter rig is a bit of a faff, I'm 5'11" and I think it might just be a bit small.  If I went for something slightly bigger then the other half could come out too, she's 5'9" so with all three of us I just think it would bee too much of a squeeze.  Probably worth mentioning she has been dinghy sailing twice only in her life, both times with me, and I might not have told her that a 2.5 mile downwind blast in the Fireball on the wire with the kite up with a peak speed of 14.6kts is not the normal way to learn, but she's obviously a very fast learner!

A 200 or 2000 would be very nice, but out of budget.  An Enterprise doesn't look like a bad shout...simple is best initially I guess, I certainly have enough bits kicking around to convert to a centre main with no outlay, and I think the "benches" might give him a feeling of security if we have a "I don't like it" moment.

I'm not too worried about the singlehanding side of things...I bought one of the earlier Teras (blue hull, yellow foils, not an RS version) for £100 whilst he was still a baby, so he can get into that as soon as he is able.

Some good suggestions...thanks!

Does anybody sail a GP with the small jib these days? The genoa introduced in the '70s is pretty huge.

WRT the Ent, as far as I can tell from the class rules, you can sheet off the boom skiff style which would give the best of both worlds. With the mainsheet led from forward so you can tack/gybe facing forward to keep an eye on the nipper during transitions but there is nothing going from boom to CB case in the middle of the cockpit to get in the way of you can siting further forward for better trim (with 90kg helm and a 20kg crew you'll want the helm well forward much of the time).

I'm 89 kg and sail an RS Feva with my kids since several years. They are (relatively) cheap and you never need to worry about damaging anything, especially during launching/going ashore singlehanded. Staying relaxed yourself is the most important point in sailing with small kids. They also offer a surprising amount of space for a 6'3'' dad and there is virtually no place where kids could hurt themselves due to the soft and rounded cockpit. The mainsheet with rear briddle helps dad moving forward enough to keep the transom out.

With a 4/5 year old a small jib is important, but with your weight you will be able to sail it singlehanded in any reasonable wind in case the kid does not want to contribute anymore.

When they get bored later on the kite will give some extra fun.

Some years on my kids now simply jump overboard when they get bored so it is still important to be able to handle the Feva singlehanded

We retrofitted a mainsheet cleat as in the first Fevas which is nice  singlehanding with the kite up when conditions are too demanding to take a small kid out.

The N12 looks great, but I just think it might be a bit too "racy"...not in terms of performance, but I don't want to force the racing thing...I'd rather be able to get three of us in it, perhaps have the space for a small anchor/sandwich box, and have the ability to trundle over to Whitwell in in from Rutland SC, leave it on the pontoon and go and get an ice cream.  I do think something traditional and cruisey with the ability to race will fit the bill, and TBH it might just be a case of finding the best condition Miracle/Enterprise/Graduate/GP14 (with a small jib) I can find for the money.  I think I'm clearly going to have to be open to the idea of a well maintained woodie, which if Fireballs are anything to go by would be a stiffer, lighter, faster and more aesthetically appealing than a GRP boat (GRP not FRP obviously!) and be good value.

I suspect we'll only have this one for a couple of years, and then it will hopefully be an upgrade to an N12, RS200, Tasar, or perhaps even a '97 rules Cherub!

Lots of sensible suggestions here - but good you realise that you might want another Cherub again soon!

I met a 9 year old Eddie Bridle at the 2008 Cherub Nationals when he was crewing for his Dad and loving it. This year he came 5th/70 at the Moth Nationals.

We bought an RS Feva this year and love it. Whilst unlikely £750 they are good value and not necessarily too much more. 

Having said all that, I would love to own a new one ..... One of my all time fave boats (together with a 5-Oh)

However, for the cost (well under £700), absolute simplicity and ability to carry a few bods, I picked up this beauty of an Enterprise yesterday, and took her out today.  It was pretty breezy but she was great, and my lad really enjoyed himself which is what it is all about.

The boat is a cracker...built in 1989 by Tony Prior (who sailed at Draycote for years) she has been epoxied, has a Paintcraft deck job, 2 suits of sails (the Speeds pictured are absolutely first class, old by age, but by the state of every tell-tale on the main, hardly used).  She's got a P&B carbon jib stick and carbon tiller extension.  She's got off-boom centre sheeting (which I may swap to a jammer on the c/b case) and came with all the paperwork, 2 x top covers, 1 x cocoon cover, and a "big wheel" galvanised trailer.  Decent fit out, Cee-Vee stock and decent foils.  Simple, slow, very pretty, but perfect for us.

Thanks again for all the contributions, and for the Enterprise suggestion!

I've had some incredibly memorable sails in my life.  Last race of the 12' Skiff Nationals, and winning the event.  Winning a monster windy pursuit race in my Fireball.  First flight in a Moth.  Top 10 windward mark rounding in the 18 at the Mark Foy trophy in amongst the pros.  Going blasting at Weston (as per my avatar) when racing had been called off due to the wind conditions.  And that's not even counting the big boat stuff.  But I have to say just reaching backwards and forwards with my lad in a cheap old Ent made out of dead trees. and seeing his face and excitement, with him asking to stay out for longer, and telling me how much he loves the boat and when are we going sailing next, tops the lot.  

[TUBE]https://youtu.be/7f7ctN_EJK8[/TUBE]

What were you sailing Andy?

Yes, it was breezy, so proud of my lad that he enjoyed it...needless to say I'd have headed in immediately if he'd had enough, but he was enjoying it very much and just wanted to keep going.  I don't mind admitting that I'd have been very unhappy indeed at his age in that breeze!

Original Post:  'so I won't take him out in big winds until he's older and wants to do it.' 

Guilty as charged.  But he wanted to do it, and the smiles say it all!  If he'd said he'd had enough, we'd have been in in a jiffy, but we were all having too much fun!