Demise of double handed sailing in general.
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13623
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 7:00am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Demise of double handed sailing in general.
Posted By: iGRF
Subject: Demise of double handed sailing in general.
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 8:53am
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It was the to me joy of racing in company that hooked me into dinghy sailing in the first place, the compared notes before a race, the joint effort in launch and recovery, the chatter and banter around the course. In my case crews passed away or fell ill, but that can't be the same for everyone, I can't quite comprehend why it is the double handed scene is so flat.
It's not for the lack of new boats, not that any of them gained traction in part I'm sure it's to do with unnecessary handicap penaltys, but even that protection hasn't assured the standard classes of a future. They all seem to be on the wane other than the Olympic meat grinders.. So what is it that's killing the best bit of dingy racing I wonder. Is it a societal change? expense? Or is it just an advance warning that the sport in general has just run its course? It's not just the Laser 4000 that's gone away.. 505s, 470s, Iso, and even though I tried to make the case for the Alto in the other thread, it doesn't have any serious traction, the Icon, that X1/X0, the L2&3k, if all we're left with is RS2&400s and cliquey anachronisms like the Merlin, it's going to be a pretty sad state of affairs. Even if there were the perfect new boat to appear, would there be anyone left to buy and sail them, not something I'd bet the house on, that's for sure. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Replies:
Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 9:11am
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Yes, for me too, sailing/racing in company is far preferable IMHO to sailing alone, though dinghy sailing, in general, has moved mainly to single-handers - and in youth instruction, that is what I mainly teach kids in. It is difficult enough for anyone these days to find enough time to go single-handed sailing - let alone finding a crew willing to commit the time, availability and share a mutual calendar of racing in a double-hander. There will always be double-handers, just not so many numbers sailing/racing them. Which is why I dont see much of a profitable and volume market for any further new double-handers to arrive on the scene. I just accept it and go with it. You arent going to push back the tide and will only stress yourself out by trying to do so ;-)
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Posted By: Gfinch
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 10:26am
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Double handed is much more fun. Numbers aren't what they once were but I'd suggest the Merlin fleet is pretty popular and the RS200s to some extent. They're also perfect for spending time with a family, the N12 class a good example, with loads of Parent/Kids sailing together, until the kids get their own N12s and their parents go in the front, or end up get beaten by their kids on the race course, which is all a good laugh. There are some 3rd generation helms/crews in the class - that is cool family history. Current situation probably helps classes like the N12 where same households can sail together - I'd expect some parent/crew sailing in an N12 but perhaps not a RS Feva / 420 etc. But, if you don't have the family crews even in normal time, I expect it is difficult to share a mutual calendar and justify the time away etc. Family club racing in double handers, sign me up. ------------- 3513, 3551 - National 12 136069 - Laser 32541 - Mirror 4501 - Laser 4000 |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 10:43am
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It is all about the crews. I would much rather sail a double hander, but it is harder to find REGULAR crews. In the search of competiveness and as we know more then we start considering, crew weight, ability and do we get on both on and off the water ... age is also an issue. After you have failed to sail a few times because of an inability to find a crew, the appeal of a singlehanded boat increases. A perfect scenario is to have a double hander and have a single hander as a back up for such occasions. In our blame culture, we should look to blame something ... and I would blame the way we have pushed our boats into being lighter, more tricky and complex ... which makes “picking a crew up off the shore” a more difficult proposition. I also suspect that crewing for an old bloke, which I often did when I was a teenager would not be seen in the same way today. Maybe the places we sail are not conducive to crews either, when a lot of our sailing was done on rivers and gravel pits, it was much more visible ... I had a Wednesday evening crew who literally were walking along the public footpath past the club when I was short of a crew, had never sailed before, and went on to crew for the rest of the season in my Merlin. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 10:56am
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I sailed a Prindle cat with my dad when I was a teenager, a 420 as part of the RYA squads, a L4000 with my wife and a RS400 with my kids but I never really tried to find a crew from outside my family after the RYA squads and based on the number of weekends I walk past the guys looking for crews on my way to go sailing I have never really considered it an option. I like sailing singlehanders, prefer it actually. No one else to blame (or in my case, I was the crew, so nice not to be blamed!!) ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 1:26pm
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I enjoy crewing, can't tolerate helming with a crew. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: ChrisI
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 5:06pm
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Me too.
As mentioned already it is certainly linked to the crew availability/co-ordination issue (and especially in boats where the crew has a bigger job than the helm) but I think in addition it is also now related to the enormous disparity in disposable income these days between generations, with no-one under the age of around 45, taking into account other commitments, really able to afford such huge outlays. |
Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 6:12pm
| Have to say I've been damned lucky with the person I sail with. We've sailed together for just about 20 years. Whilst I own the boat, we share helming both at the club and opens. We are pretty close in ability so no issues there. But he puts an awful lot into the boat - much handier than I at small repairs and maintenance, and occasionally buys a new kite or jib. And, goddamit, he's always up for it when I'm not! We have our "tense" moments in the boat, but we never take it ashore. Its been a pretty successful combination over the years and looking forward to getting back in the boat with him when the time comes. |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 6:23pm
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Wake up on a wet and cold horrid day. Single hander? The option to pull up the duvet and stay dry. With a double hander you are committed. And often those miserable days are the best for sailing.
The move to single handers reduces overall numbers by several routes Whatever happened to the good old fashioned route of crewing for some of the experienced sailors. Lost in the Squad setup? |
Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 7:44pm
| Treasure that friendship (and it sounds like you do)! It's incredibly rare to find someone you can get on with in tense situations, and for over 20 years. I envy you both and wish you many more happy years sailing together. I'm still trying to find that special someone! |
Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 7:50pm
Have you tried Tinder??? 🤣 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 9:05pm
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I married my Firefly crew. She owns the boat, so no choice, really! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 9:20pm
100% agree. My singlehander is a boat of convenience and if its iffy or I cant be bothered I don't go. I much prefer sailing a two man boat and im actually not that bothered which end though some boats require more effort than I want to put in at the front. The trouble is in the current climate those of us who have several crews will probably not sail or give in to the boat of convenience only to find its easier as you dont spend half an hour on Thursday trying to sort someone out for the weekend. Im a bit worried about the future of two man classes and some "surviving" classes (Enterprise) I think could be in trouble.
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Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 11:56pm
Dohertpk...thank you for for that response  If it's going to work well then I'd say the big things are respect for each others strengths and weaknesses, and similar commitment. But if you're mates, even better. It's a tricky recipe but it ultimately depends on realistic aspirations. It's a tough call when you can just go and buy a singlehander. But sailing a 2-person boat, for me, is hugely more rewarding than sailing alone.
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 11 Jul 20 at 9:10am
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For me it is down to crew availability. The Spice needs a fair bit of practice and experience to sail reasonably well so, while it's a great boat for blasting, it's not competitive in the handicap fleet. Especially inland where my more 'serious' racing takes place (actually with twin traps, a fairly big rig and huge kite it's completely unsuitable for our ¼ square mile lake). I have considered selling it and buying an Enterprise* but then a regular crew probably wants more to do to keep it interesting (and the reduced fun factor for blasting around in Holyhead Bay). So I have the Blaze as my main boat and the Spice for the occasional blast and open water race. * I'd love a Merlin but it has nearly all the same crewing issues as the Spice and the cost of a decent plastic one is pretty steep. The other obvious candidate is a 400 but that feels like a bit of a cop out after the Spice. And either would still need a committed and competent crew to race competitively. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: andy h
Date Posted: 11 Jul 20 at 1:17pm
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A 400 is very tolerant of inexperienced crews, but it might not quicken your pulse after a Spice. Personally I love the things and preferred crewing them to helming. I used to run my Europe alongside my 400 sailing which was a good mix. Eventually my helm sold the 400 to get an RS100 and I emigrated which sadly put an end to my fun. Now that my son has dug his heels in and is refusing to crew for me (fair enough!) I'm at a crossroads between a s/h dinghy and 3 man keelboat sailing. I wonder which way I'll jump? ------------- Europe AUS53 & FF 3615 National 12 3344, Europe 397 and Mirror 53962 all gone with regret |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 16 Jul 20 at 5:54am
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The chat up line was basically: we've both got the same boats so if you're short of crew I'll crew for you and perhaps you could crew for me sometimes. Twenty years later we're still sailing together, living together and the two boats have bred and become about twenty two boats! |
Posted By: Ozzytub
Date Posted: 16 Jul 20 at 12:04pm
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I Own a 2 man boat but never find a crew I like the interaction makes things more fun. So I sail a single hander all the time. Although I much prefer to be the crew not a helm. I think the best option if I can sort out would be to do open meetings two handed as a crew then I could just meet up at the event don't even need to be in the same county and club race single handed. best of both worlds although as a helm crew combo may not be top of the fleet
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