2020 Dinghy Show
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13534
Printed Date: 28 Jun 25 at 5:58pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 2020 Dinghy Show
Posted By: andyk
Subject: 2020 Dinghy Show
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 1:02pm
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There are an estimated 2 -2.5million sailors in GB Approx 10-12,000 Attend the Dinghy Show, so 2.4million don’t! I would love to get there, but I would have to allow 3 days for travel etc, I’m on one of the smaller Channel Islands and connectivity is difficult. This is a cry out to class associations and their membership Please, take lots of photos, videos etc so those of us who cannot attend can keep up with the latest trends, fittings, lay-outs, innovations Get them on line, on Association pages etc It is a great Show, so please, get the information out into the big wide world so we can all benefit
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Replies:
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 1:28pm
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It's almost impossible to present a dinghy show which is very different each year. The number of suitable venues in an acceptable location and at an acceptable price makes it difficult to move and reach a new area. So whilst appreciating the organisers efforts, I find that going once every 4-5 years shows enough change to make it worthwhile for me to attend.
I also wonder that with no show, it would support the smaller chandlers who cant attend. And by saving huge staffing and transport costs, the larger sellers would have a huge savings that they could divert into early season specials and promotions. |
Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 2:36pm
Agree there. The main displays there tend to be boats that I'm fairly familiar with anyway, although it's always nice to see a "highly strung" Merlin or 505 (rope costing more than I'd pay for a dinghy). Years ago there was always talk of the bargains that you could get, kit, accessories and the like but I can't say that I've seen many in recent years. Like the OP, it's nice to see the pics though. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 3:40pm
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They are re-orgainising the show this year in to zones. So all the Cas will be in 1 area, boat sellers in another, chandlers in another. There is some crossover though as always, the D-Zero CA will be with the UK dealer on their stand as opposed to a stand alone area. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 4:42pm
| We are there on the Saturday. Looking forward to it . 😀 |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 4:43pm
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Where will the Coronavirus 19 stand be? ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 4:53pm
I believe it’s on the Farr class association stand as there are no members and no visitors so therefore no chance of spreading the virus 😂😂😂 Sorry jack, but it had to be said 😀
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 6:50pm
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Decided to go to work instead. Every other year works ok unless I'm active in a class and manning the stand. Too many other RYA things of a February for me to go to as well, which means plenty of travel, and London not a favourite place to go. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 6:58pm
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Should be moved to Midlands area, perhaps Rutland water ? Get the boats on the water, make it a celebration of sailing. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 7:14pm
All that RYA cash tied up and hanging on the winter weather being right is too much risk. It's got to be inside. Nec too expensive etc etc My favourite? Not the best but the sight of Bondy lowering a Fireball into a Crystal palace squash court was not to be missed. |
Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 17 Feb 20 at 7:50pm
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I’m breaking with habit by going down for the first time in my 40 odd years of sailing and really looking forward to it. Would be nice if it was a bit further north now and again though! ------------- OK 2249 D-1 138 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 7:32am
| An on the water show sounds fine, but consider, if you figure a bare minimum of 15 mins per boat including changeover, and an 8 hour day, both of which seem wildly optimistic, that's 32 people see each boat in a day. Divide by each visitor sailing say 8 classes, multiply by 100 classes and average 4 boats per class, and you sell 1600 tickets. Add to that the frustration of the most interesting classes being the small ones which cant manage as many as 4 boats on the water, and I can't see it being remotely viable. |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 7:41am
| And where does the " 2.5 million dinghy sailors" in the uk estimate come from ?. 2.5 million people that have been briefly in a dinghy or at some time considered sailing at some time in their lives maybe, but the number of people interested enough to consider a significant journey and committing to a day at a specialist show is surely much much lower. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 10:11am
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Not everyone would take sailing gear, those that do are more likely to be genuine buyers. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 10:11am
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The thing I always find puzzling, other than the RYA blurb which reaches RYA members I guess, you don't see a lot of other forward publicity from exhibitors, 'come and see us on stand whatever' you'd think facebook would be awash with classes inviting you, I get more invites to regattas I'm never likely to attend than invites for cup of coffee and cake or bubbles and brandy whatever.
I mean does anyone know who's going of extraordinary note? I love the show, can't wait for it each year, never ever get all the way round it, always get bogged down with someone or other I haven't seen for ages, but they'd do a lot better with a half decent publicity wallah.. Edit oh and regarding wet demo's v static dry shows, you sell much much more at the latter.. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 1:24pm
| I suspect the Rya are tied into the Ally Pally for years to keep the rent down. But I am sure that the occasional change of venue would at least see a different 12,000 people visiting. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 1:26pm
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Combine it with caravan and motor home show at the NEC, loads of boaters also have caravans. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 2:33pm
Wasn’t there a Boat Show attached to this back in the day? I wonder how many of the 12,000 are already committed to a particular class or exhibitor? It used to be a great talking shop and probably still is, but when I have been there it has usually because I was helping my club or class, and it always struck me that most people I spoke to were taking time off from another stand, or were from clubs from North London, Essex or Hertfordshire. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: andyk
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 5:05pm
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I just love nice, positive, happy posts. Clearly you use Facebook quite a lot. |
Posted By: andyk
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 5:07pm
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This one, above, aimed at Ian Your positivity is overflowing with generosity
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Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 5:21pm
Would be useful to know where the 2,500,000 figure came from. We all want sailing to succeed, and I would like a succesfull dinghy show. Working from the figures supplied by you for possible and actual in your opening post, we havent got it yet. Crystal Palace seemed far better, but perhaps that was just the enthusiasm of youth. Thanks for telling me about the overflow, will raise the sides up a little! |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 5:46pm
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Perhaps Andy has the solution in his initial post.
Scrub the show and spend the money saved on a " show" website with tech info,training sessions and promotion of each class |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 7:33pm
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Crystal Palace was a dreadful place, but I loved the feel of the show when it was there. Very amateur! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 8:08pm
I went to buy an Iso ( yes really), luckily I turned into the squash courts and bought my third Fireball. It was amateur but it was vibrant Nobody has sent me any general details about the show this year, but please tell me there wont be someone doing a talk about boat rigging, how to be an Olympic star and the story about sailing something surprising to Scandinavia- like it is every year It needs someone competent ( igrf?) to market it properly |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 9:18pm
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I won’t be there because I shall be going sailing, but I could quite happily listen to Mark Rushall’s talk on tactics, an Olympic Trainer talk on fitness, a meteorologist talk on weather forecasting, and Mike Mac do his legendary rig tuning talk ... that’s four hours, leaving little time to look at boats, have a beer and catch up with mates! ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 9:24pm
So would I, but after hearing it twice, I will join you in going sailing instead. Me not going, who cares. But someone of your status going sailing instead perhaps suggests a different direction could be useful? Along with loads of other people not going How abou a south coast and a northern event every 4 or 5 years to reach some different people? |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 9:31pm
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I enjoyed the show, listened to the Wayfarer talk, the one that went to America, just the journey is a downer. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 9:43pm
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My club ( along with many others) used to organise a coach down.
I have been to 15 plus and enjoyed most of them.A lot of the talks have been good, but it's a largely fixed market and rolling out similar or the same each year and hoping people wont notice doesnt work. My memory is bad but not that bad! The internet has removed the incentive of going to the show to get a deal on kit. I have now joined the masses that dont go. If criticising the existing show and suggesting improvements so that future sailors can get the same enjoyment I did is negative, then fine. I am going sailing! |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Feb 20 at 10:01pm
Me too  ------------- Robert |
Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 10:57am
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I think the 2.5 million number might be a bit optimistic. Even if you add all other sailing (yacht racing/cruising & dinghy cruising) you only get to 1.3m. 'Small sailboat racing' only accounts for ~205,000 and as this is the major target audience of the show the attendance numbers don't seem that bad (given that the Dinghy Show always feels a bit like groundhog day anyway...). https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/sportsdevelopment/2017-watersports-study-final-summary.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/sportsdevelopment/2017-watersports-study-final-summary.pdf |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 12:42pm
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Interesting opportunity to procrastinate ... the fact that small sailboat racing is on the rise should be celebrated. How Cliff climbing, Coastal Walking, Leisure time beach, Outdoor Swimming get into the list of water sports I don't know, and these really skew the overall participation ... interestingly where I sail, I can tick off all of these activities on a typical day that I go dinghy racing ... and that excludes rowing, paddle boarding or canoeing in order to get to the beach! ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 8:20pm
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While the kit isn’t necessarily cheaper, for many of us it’s the easiest access we ever get to a chandlery to try gear on... internet is great for somethings, but I don’t think you can beat actual stuff to try. ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 20 Feb 20 at 3:39pm
------------- Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74. |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 20 Feb 20 at 3:40pm
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So, show stays where it is.
------------- Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 20 Feb 20 at 8:21pm
Didn't they have radio controlled yachts racing at Crystal Palace? I seem to remember jousting with Eddie Warden Owen I think it was, it was way back, must have been '82/83, we'd gone there to leaflet the show to get folk to come to our show which was at Alley Pally, which much later on after we sold it, the RYA moved in on our slot. Must have been '89, we sold up in '87. My first show was at Pickets lock in '78, took a TV and video player, to promote the original Windsurfer, must have been the first time anything had been marketed by video, shape of things to come, somebody from the RYA complained that it was unfair marketing tactics and asked me to turn it off for periods.. Honestly you couldn't write it never mind making it up. They are/were so dead between the ears when it comes to publicising anything, don't think much has changed.  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: cloudnine
Date Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 2:57pm
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Surprised it hasn't been cancelled due to the Zombie virus. Will people still go? Anyone from the forum still going? The RYA cant guarantee the safety of employees.. so could be am issue on that front.
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Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 3:28pm
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My wife is involved in dog showing. Crufts is on next week and they are not allowing exhibitors from Northern Italy etc to attend.
When they cannot control the thousands of private visitors I dont understand how this helps. I only go to the Dinghy show every third year so I can see some changes, but if I was going I cannot see how the risk is much higher than going to the local supermarket. I am optomistic that the average dinghy sailor may be paying extra care to hand cleaning, not going if feeling unwell etc |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 4:05pm
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I will be there and helping out on the class stand on Saturday morning. Frankly I think the media around zombie virus is total pants - 10,000 people die of flu in the UK in a bad year and this is just another kind of flu. Off to Pakistan on Sunday, believe me.....I have a much higher chance of meeting something nasty as a result of that :-) ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 5:26pm
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Elaine and I will be there tomorrow. Sad as always that our class gave up on the show a few years ago , to me if you don’t make the effort to go it means your class is on the way to extinction. But mine is the minority view in this matter. The committee view was the money saved would be used on other forms of publicity, never seen any sign of any though. So we will start with a visit to the lightning stand (to see old friends), then the comet one ( my wife has one as her second boat)then wander about in a haphazardly fashion trying to see as much as we can .
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 8:38pm
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Plan A Saturday mark boat at optimist open, Sunday sailing my, new to me, boat. However based on the ever changing forecast like last year maybe a last minute visit. ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: polc1410
Date Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 9:51pm
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I'm still going.
There is ONE case of UK contracted virus. The others are irrelevant. The train journey there will be a bigger risk of infection than the show. It's more dangerous than flu, but currently the numbers don't suggest you are more likely to get it than flu. So either get on with stuff or get in the bunker till August. |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 8:34am
| Well I thought it was very much as usual. Nothing exciting. Lots of plastic things diluting the classes yet more and making newbies think you have to spend a fortune to go sailing. The absence of a lot of class associations was noticeable - money is better spent elsewhere. Dougal's interesting history of sailing and Mike Mac's rig talk were enjoyable - Mike changed it this year by breaking the RS200 mid talk! Bought new kit at decent prices after trying on several pairs of boots at different suppliers stalls (can't do that online). Best part was catching up with several friends we haven't seen since last summer's events. |
Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 12:48pm
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I see the show is moving to Farnborough next year. That is literally a move in the wrong direction for large parts of the population. ------------- OK 2249 D-1 138 |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 1:13pm
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London may not be central but at least it is a rail hub. Farnborough? |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 1:41pm
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Whilst marginally better for me in a car ... this will be sending out all the wrong messages for the sport ... bad for anyone North of Watford, poor public transport links, bad carbon footprint ... but quite handy for the RYA wallahs. Makes the show very regional, which will make it less relevant to the class associations, and less attractive to the industry. I think this will be the death knell for the dinghy show, in much the same way that Docklands killed the Boat Show. Is the M3 access part of a scheme to make it into a keelboat show? ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 1:42pm
It's perfect! Reduced travelling from our offices for the RYA. Oh! You mean for visitors, well............. |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 2:04pm
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Not that I matter but we'll not be going there. Could do London in a day by rail at a pinch or we have made a weekend of it to include a London exhibition V&A, Science Museum,................ An anonymous warehouse on an airfield, I think not. Agree with David.
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Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 2:14pm
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As a pond sailor from the midlands this is not a good move and I can see me bothering to go next year . |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 2:18pm
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https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Farnborough/Southampton/@51.1044169,-1.3492525,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x48742ac28424763b:0x8deb0ce49313925d!2m2!1d-0.752615!2d51.2868939!1m5!1m1!1s0x48738957be152909:0xa78c5a6a4cda71f0!2m2!1d-1.4043509!2d50.9097004!3e0 |
Posted By: polc1410
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 4:42pm
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Well I've done Ally Pally 3 times. First by train in a day. Was a long trip. We didn't buy much gear - had to carry it home. Second by car connected to buying a boat. Can't remember what gear we bought. There was a hotel stay.
Third this weekend. Could have been a day trip if ECML wasn't planned closed. But we made a weekend of it and we to a show last night before a return train journey that took twice as long as Friday night.. what "thee wee man" wanted and what I wanted were very different things. He wanted to go on simulators and trapeze and pull up spinny on cadets etc. I wanted to look at gear. Try stuff on. If I'd had a chance I'd have gone back today. I wonder if there are Sunday afternoon bargains to save taking stock back. I suspect people travelling by train don't want to carry big stuff. Franbrough is further by train for me (time).. not sure if I can split it to stay somewhere on Friday night. Or what else is nearby as extra activities. *If* it meant the classes that have stopped attending (e.g. for cost) can now attend that may be no bad thing. Mirror class not there (although there was a mirror on a stand). *If* the model yacht pond was a tad bigger. *If* the (missing) chandlers felt it didn't cost so much to bring stock in etc... It may be a better venue. I certainly would not fancy having to tow my boat to AllyPally to display... If there was outside space - might you get a 'classified' adds section? Am I dreaming? Maybe even a 'jumble' chucked in too? Not sure what more can be done in terms of activities... |
Posted By: fleaberto
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 5:56pm
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Farnborough?
I've just mapped that out to a 4+HR train/train/bus trip to the venue (Vs 1.5 to 2 direct train down to London) and nothing nearby to make it the usual 'Weekend away'. Straight away that turns into a 2night stay if we want to be there and get home at a reasonable time rather than one. We couldn't go this year - first we've missed in 10yrs - but I can't see the attraction of this new location to be honest. So, more car journeys? Less to do in the area? 🤔 Seems a bit of an odd choice if a change was needed. ------------- Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays' |
Posted By: polc1410
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 6:18pm
It could still be a 1 night stay. Leave home say 8am. Arrive 1pm. 3 hrs at show Sat Pm. Stay over. Show Sun Morning. leave say 2pm. Home for tea? I've never planned my visit to co-incide with specific speakers etc. Yet for a work conference etc I would... |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 7:24pm
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From the OP ‘Please, take lots of photos, videos etc so those of us who cannot attend can keep up with the latest trends, fittings, lay-outs, innovations Get them on line’ Some of use had to go sailing and swimming today ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 7:28pm
| Farnborough is better for those of us in the west of England - takes an hour off our journey. But seems an odd choice of venue for a national show. |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 7:32pm
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Farnborough - really - only 36mins for me now but with Northern blood it has to be April the 1st not March the 1st. From the North East Ali Pally was an easy day trip Farnborough is probably two nights in a hotel or a long drive ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 8:02pm
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Moving the show to a better venue was required to stop the slow loss of exhibitors, both business and enthusiast.
Perhaps what seems to be a crazy idea will surprise us all and halt the slow decline. But I dont think many of us are holding our breath. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 8:09pm
You can fly straight in ;)
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Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 8:16pm
I find the Gulfstream needs at least 200 miles to warm up properly, these short hops are not engine friendly |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 8:24pm
Hop like that has to be my Sikorsky S-92 ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: armadillos
Date Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 10:07pm
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Whilst a central Midlands venue would have been the most sensible option. I am sure that the NEC would have been prohibitively expensive for most associations and businesses. As a commercial exhibitor this year and many times an association exhibitor, I think Farnborough is a very good move by the RYA. Having lived in Basingstoke for many years, only 20-30 minutes away, the road links to almost anywhere in the country are better than trying to get into
London. We are east coast based now so it is further but the reality is that it will be logistically much easier. As someone who generally has no confidence in the direction the RYA is taking the sport I am quite impressed that they have finally made a positive decision. What would have been even better in my view would have been to run it from marquees at a venue such as Grafham or Rutland giving visitors the option of seeing and trying boats on the water. Perhaps they should resurrect the Try-a-Boat days that were a huge success in the late 80’s in addition to the Dinghy Show. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 7:01am
Soeak for yourself, coming from East Anglia getting round the M25 between the M40 and the M3 is always a nightmare. I can't see me attending unless I make a weekend of it and tie it in with a family trip down that way. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 8:24am
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Nearer for me, but when I thought, pooh, hop on a train, it turned out to be 3 trains and a bus from Swindon, and twice the time it would be by car.
I guess it must be cheap, but even somewhere in the East Midlands, like the RYA conferences (equally difficult for everyone) might have been better. No idea if there are big spaces out there, but can't believe there aren't. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 9:42am
There is a large Arena venue in Peterborough at the East of England Showground. About a mile from the A1. I don't doubt there are many other venues like it if the NEC was beyond financial reach. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: fleaberto
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 9:53am
Yeah, I get that and it's already something I've thought about. Thing is, we always see the show as a great reason for a weekend away. So, Saturday at the show (Usually on a stand at some point) before heading for a night in the city and some 'tourist' stuff y'know? Almost marks the start of not only the season but of our own calendar. Not sure Mrs Fleaberto will be so enamoured to go ....mind you, it might mean that there's no-one to imprison the credit card so perhaps a positive after all  ------------- Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays' |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 10:05am
| Obviously there will be some losers in terms of travel time but Farnborough IEC is an excellent venue, easier to get to for anyone south of the M4 (probably most sailors?) and not more than 30 mins extra for most others. Overall if it encourages more classes, more sailmakers and more trade to attend then visitor numbers should also grow. |
Posted By: Fatboi
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 11:32am
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Great for me! I was considering going to AP this weekend. I have worked quite a few, but not been as a punter since I was about 15 (17 years ago), but from me it would have been a 2hr trip each way - Based South Coast central. I decided 4 hours of driving wasn't worth it. I can get to Milton Keynes in 2 hours, which would have been a better area to go to in my mind than AP. The logistics of the show as an exhibitor is a nightmare, with so few entry points. Pack up was always terrible with poor access in and out and had to be done Sunday night, accommodation was expensive and so was food and beer. Will almost certainly go to Farnborough next year, as it is only an hour away. It will suit anyone driving from the West or down the A34 route as well as south central. Any route avoiding the M25 and London Circular can only be a good thing!! Obviously those from the East will loose out, but I guess someone has to... |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 11:45am
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Certainly looking at the location of existing Rya members and sailors , Farnborough makes sense. As long as winter continues to disappear as travel by train is not required.
If this was part of a plan with a midland and then northern event following to reach out to new people, I would say well done. Let's hope we get chance to say well done when this is publicised |
Posted By: GBR1827
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 12:15pm
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At least there's some good news. It's not ExCel!
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Posted By: L123456
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 12:22pm
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Just makes me think that the RYA don't give a monkeys about anyone north of Watford. If you were going to the trouble of moving it then if it moved anywhere nearer the south coast it was obvious to anyone that the RYA would come under fire for such a move and to plough onwards regardless shows a complete arrogance if you ask me ... which of course no-one did ...
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 12:42pm
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Whilst very much a Southerner and now a South Westerner, whilst an amble up the A303 is quite appealing; I have always considered the South Coast to be home to the "Yachties" and the Midlands and the North to be the hotbed of grassroots dinghy sailing. Obviously the RYA have access to some demographics that prove otherwise. My guess is that the powers that be are between a rock and a hard place in a shrinking market, but this decision is one that I suspect will be regretted further down the line. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 2:07pm
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I've heard that Ally Pally will introduce parking charges soon and extended area congestion charging also looms ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 5:08pm
Moving from Ally Pally was a good plan and gave an opportunity to show that they realise that dinghy sailing doesnt stop north of Enfield. Some small and obscure shows happen at the NEC and a Dinghy show would I believe be viable. Missing reaching out to the dinghy sailing heartlands is a shame. |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 6:50pm
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Lots of great clubs and keen sailors in the North.They alternate the Optimist and Topper Nationals between the North and South why not the dinghy show. A whole new ‘market’ of people would visit if it was at their end of the country. I don’t think anyone has actually looked at a map. 
------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 6:58pm
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Event City in Trafford Park, Manchester might just be big enough, very good transport links, decent, free parking and relatively cheap hotels? I'd definitely visit if it was there. Farnborough? My sister lives in Christchurch so I thought, I can stay with here....... But it's the thick end of two hours from hers to the venue so that's a non starter........
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 7:06pm
Have you looked at the YY map of where clubs are? However all that's irrelevant without a map of where affordable venues with a 30ft plus ceiling height that can hold an indoor event on the first weekend in March are... |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 8:15pm
 The RYA map It won’t let you do the whole country. Having recently moved from the North to the South and done a two years of Northern Zone squad ignoring the North is myopic. I challenge anyone to find me a south coast club where all abilities from eight to eighty years old all get 3 of 4 races in on a Sunday. I am lucky to be near Burghfield which is a good club. This is where our current Olympic squad where born, I have no intention of finding out where they learnt to sail but the majority north of Watford and no south coast. Elliot Hanson - Cheshire, Alison Young - Worcester, Giles Scott - Huntingdon, Hannah Mills - Cardiff, Eilidh McIntyre - Winchester, Dylan Fletcher - Surrey, Stuart Bithell - Manchester, Charlotte Dobson - Glasgow, Saskia Tidey - Ireland, John Gimson - Leicester, Anna Burnet - Hammersmith ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 8:48pm
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I’m sure the constraints at finding a suitable venue for the criteria we’re all guessing at wasn’t the easiest, coming in from Essex it makes very little difference to the time spent travelling.
I would prefer a midlands venue though, which would mean a longer drive but as has been pointed out may mean a better show and I stress may. Anyway, the last ally pally show was good, layout change was a long time coming, still didn’t get to see everything and everyone. [TUBE]xo_ce18YU3w[/TUBE] ------------- https://skiff-media.teemill.com/" rel="nofollow - T-SHIRTS https://www.photo4me.com/profile/23908/" rel="nofollow - PRINTS |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 8:00am
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The idea of alternating North and South seems a good one. Farnborough one year, somewhere in Yorkshire the next?
Might get different classes and pro-exhibitors each year, too. And it will finally show whether the north really has more dinghy sailors! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 8:34am
| https://www.rya.org.uk/dinghy-show/Pages/visitor-information.aspx" rel="nofollow - https://www.rya.org.uk/dinghy-show/Pages/visitor-information.aspx RYA apologia for the move. |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 9:09am
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Interesting that both the Nec and Gmex needs an explanation in brackets to tell Rya members where they are.
Perhaps if the show was changed radically from the same thing wheeled out each year, visitors would be brave enough to travel north of London? |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 9:21am
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It's a show about dinghy sailing. Aimed at existing sailors and - hopefully - attracting new blood into the sport. Boats and classes saying 'you should sail THIS'; Clubs saying you 'should sail HERE'; Retailers saying 'Buy this KIT'. Not sure how the recipe can be changed, but then I have no imagination & I'm not in marketing. I was surprised by the location choice. I'm much more likely to go now as it's 40 mins ish from here, but I do fear that those any distance to the north of London will be put off. If the RYA were really brave they could perhaps try a Northern Dinghy Show. We don't know whether the RYA subsidise the current event. I assume not. The Motor Show used to alternate between London & B'ham. Much bigger budgets, but if the will is there??? Edit: Why are paragraph breaks no longer recognised? Who's broken the forum?
------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: PaulPoshW
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 9:47am
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I think the RYA may have got the first point wrong. Rather than aiming at the majority of frequent visitors surely they should be looking at how they can increase the number of infrequent. Ease of public transport becomes more difficult as most from up north will have to change and travel across London anyway |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 10:05am
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Love But the show is scheduled last weekend of Feb! ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 3:14pm
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Think a north London or midlands location would be best but not the NEC. It’s a very expensive place. Last time I went to the Cycle show there , an advance ticket cost £16 ( price on the door was £20) plus another £16 to park . |
Posted By: polc1410
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 4:56pm
Depends. If your current format is OK for visitor numbers but your exhibitors are complaining then all you need to do is pacify the exhibitors and keep the visitors happy. I don't think the public transport has been well thought through. Perhaps it's OK for those doing a weekend. For those going for a day it's not great! But... Change at Reading..from up Norf, that could be avoid London. Perhaps bringing a car will make me buy more :) (maybe people will take boats home!!) Perhaps bringing a car will make me take more people - so instead of going alone I take the family as the transport cost is pretty much the same. Or I go as a group of sailors. Perhaps a group plan makes me less likely to bail out 2 days before hand because ICBA. I don't envy exhibitors driving to Ally Pally. Some of the big guys must have had multiple vans etc. The CAs etc must find all that a bit daunting too. My experience this year was enlightening. First time I took my son. Discovered there is more than I "see" normally. He wanted to go on trapezes, model yachts, VR, simulators etc. I know those things are there - I walk past. He had no interest in gear shops or looking at classes he won't sail just to see how they route a rope etc. Previous years I've never been fussed by the presentation stuff. This year I fancied it but son wasn't up for it. The acoustics were as bad as ever... So if we accept it needed to move... It's only a question of is this the right venue. It feels odd. Particularly the difficulty jumping on a train. *But* that doesn't make it wrong until I've tried it. I'd seriously consider 2 days there in the future rather than a day trip. (Did that just double my attendance ?) - let him go do stuff he wants, I can go to "talks", try on gear etc. Perhaps man a stand in my CA was going back... I'd like to see CAs allowed free space (pay to make larger).. if moving venue achieved that - no bad thing... CAs possibly need some help though... Coz they need to understand marketeering just like Clubs need help. I walked past a presentation that actually seemed useful - not sure what it was titled but it was mentioning event reports. Talking social media etc. We need to get better at reporting what happened. Gone are the days of a paper report published 2 months later in a newsletter. These guys were saying think video... I'd love to not just have London Clubs there too... Again that needs clubs to understand what's in it for them. How many members do you need to gain to cover costs of stand plus "staffing" and how likely would you get those members... But it may not just be instant members. There is something about clubs being recognised as premier locations. If your name is seen at the show and 18 months later is being considered to host X race... Does it stand more chance than the slightly cheaper club no-one has heard of. I'm prepared to be open minded until I've been to Farnborough PS I'm traveling from the North East. This would be worse for me |
Posted By: polc1410
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 5:00pm
Indeed. So while I see the attraction of NEC as a venue, I doubt you'd please exhibitors if their costs increase and if they are out to milk me as a customer for £16 parking... (Per day?) That seems even worse. Travel for me there by public transport would be 'easier' but not much quicker I suspect... |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 5:29pm
| The RYAs list of criteria seem reasonable, and Farnborough seems to be the least worst fit. To my mind the show is suffering because too many classes have pulled out because of the expense, so its got to be cheaper than AP, NEC, which probably means Excel and Olympia too. I can't imagine Cotswold Water Park or Blenheim Palace can provide indoor heated halls with 30 foot ceiling height, Manchester feels too far North... Of course if anyone can think of a better venue than anything the RYA have considered I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear. Charming as the old days scattered round a Sports centre were, I don't think it would do for the modern audience... |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 5:49pm
------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 6:06pm
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Nice of the RYA to give such a relatively detailed explanation. Would be interesting to see the scoring matrix with weightings. I would imagine cost was the main decider by a big factor, plus dates, imagine better venues where booked up for years into the future. Hopefully they are actively negotiating 2025 ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 6:32pm
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If they are working on next years show by filling in just the speakers name on the same every year presentation list , and not taking some major action to get Class Associations back exhibiting, I would not be surprised if the last show was at Farnborough.
Where was the trapeze tacking competition, the live boat restoration and repair stand and another three "Sticks" to give a different talk? |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 7:03pm
Posted this in a different topic but relevant. The PN list sorted by race returns Not many classes that aren’t SMOD or as close to it as makes no difference. I often wonder how many people go because they are wanting to change class and the show helps make their decision, and so what is the return on effort for the small classes.  ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 7:08pm
| Folks, it’s Farnborough, not Tipararee. It’s only half an hour from London, avoids the North Circular, has four train stations within 10 minutes of it (and a very fancy airport with free muffins) and is a very modern, stylish centre. I think it’s a great choice. |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 7:35pm
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[QUOTE=A2Z] Folks, it’s Farnborough, not Tipararee. It’s only half an hour from London, avoids the North Circular, has four train stations within 10 minutes of it (and a very fancy airport with free muffins) and is a very modern, stylish centre. I think it’s a great choice.
I want to ride on your train! Let's hope it's a super appealing new format to make the extra couple of hours travel for us Northeners coming down to Kings Cross worthwhile. |
Posted By: polc1410
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 7:35pm
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Not entirely convinced the snapshot who submit handicap data represents the sailing activity in the country
Solo - second most popular boat ? Really ? 7 x more than toppers? I think we all assume we want the same thing from the show. The reality is there are lots of different people attending for lots of different reasons: * Big sailors - looking for the latest whatever (boat, gear) * New sailors - trying to pick a boat, find a club, looking for a holiday * Class enthusiasts looking to lure the above in * Juniors & parents looking for gear. * Juniors enthused by sailing who want to hear from future Olympians etc * Club officers looking for ideas how to increase participants meme rahip etc * Tinker'ers looking to repair, improve etc * Coaches, instructor etc who need to tick off some CPD for 5 year renewal * Juniors wanting to 'play' on some kit * People wanting to flog some stuff The criticism of same presentation different speaker... Doesn't matter if that is a new audience. |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 7:47pm
From the North East 9hrs 23mins by train - that is a three fold increase in what was a nice day trip and so many changes just not sensible  ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 7:56pm
Obviously it only represents club handicap racing, at my club Solo/Topper 7:1 is spot on. Like your list of attendees not sure how class associations justify the effort. It does as you say deliver a lot to many but if participation falls below a critical mass in might become unworkable. Only time will tell. ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: polc1410
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 8:03pm
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Tink? North East of England or North East of UK?
UK - while the carbon footprint isn't great - I'd be think of flying to Gatwick. England - I'm getting ~5hrs journey time by train. Easiest with a change at Reading. Can't go to Ally Pally without a change. It's 3hrs to KingsX for me, then 20mins to Wood Green plus change time and a fair walk from Wood Green (I'm convinced it's uphill going and coming from AllyPally!) So I guess door to door must be 4hrs (from Durham train station). But if you search for departing 'now' ... It will not be quick as it's over night... This year I went down Fri night, I could do the same and be there in 4hr 33mins. Or go to London and travel to Farnborough on Sat morning. Could actually stay in London and do a show on Saturday night that way... ? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 8:11pm
The quickest train from Newcastle tomorrow morning is 3hr16 mins to Alexandra Palace or 4hr 8mins to Farnborough. So, a bit longer but less than an hour. Same price, three changes for Ally Pally but two for Farnborough. From Birmingham the difference is 25 minutes, but the ticket to Farnborough is cheaper. Google maps suggests by car from Newcastle is 19minutes longer and from Birmingham is exactly the same time.
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 8:13pm
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I now live less than half an hour from Farnborough but recently moved from Stockton which was a pleasant day trip to Ali P. Calculating on a Saturday leaving at 5.00 or 6.00 is still five hours. Not sure many will spend twice as long travelling as at the show. ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: polc1410
Date Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 8:51pm
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I'm not sure that many travel from the North East.
On Saturday I saw one sailor from my club who was manning a CA stand. Two from other clubs near me. I've done the day trip and the overnight stay. If I was going with family I'd overnight it. I think I'd be less likely to do a day visit.. but I was actually disappointed to not have been going back on Sunday Its too easy to say it's 3 hrs from Durham to London. But it's more like 4:15 to Ally Pally. If that's 5hrs 15 that's not a big difference. |