Which Laser sail?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13478
Printed Date: 28 Jun 25 at 5:36pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Which Laser sail?
Posted By: Late starter
Subject: Which Laser sail?
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 1:17pm
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I've got an oldie but goody Laser stuck in the back of the boat park that I really fancy getting on the water next year. I bought it for my kids to sail, so it's got a decent 4.7 rig but the standard sail that came with it is probably 20+ years old, like the rest of the boat. All I want to do is some low key club racing, so I was planning to try and find a half decent second hand sail from somewhere. Anyway I had a look on ebay yesterday and blimey, there are a lot of sail choices out there for someone who wants a new standard rig laser sail ! Laser Performance seem to be selling their own range of "training" sails, which I assume are no longer class legal, or I can buy replica sails, which again I assume are not class legal, or I can buy an official class legal sail which now seems to cost over £500. And to make life even more complicated there now seems to be mk2 sails from all the above to consider too so there are plenty of permutations to consider. We don't have a Laser fleet at my club anymore so I've got nothing to compare against, but what do other clubs do ? Do clubs insist on fully class legal Laser sails for club racing as with class events? Are all replica's allowed ? And what's the opinion on the mk2 sail on an old boat like mine ? I think I'm leaning towards a replica sail of some kind, as I can't justify a £500 sail on a boat that isn't worth much more than that.
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Replies:
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 2:09pm
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We fleet race lasers and allow class legal and replica sails. Some people have mk1s and some mk2s. I have never used a mk2 so am interested in what people think of them too.
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Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 2:11pm
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Hi Most clubs turn a blind eye to using replica or training sails for club racing and with the issues with the UK laser builder its got worse. I would look for a training sail and not worry about it being class legal. Sorry don't sail a laser so cant help on who does the best one or mk1 versis mk2. Regards Gordon ------------- Gordon Phantom 1430 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 2:40pm
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Same advice here, and a training sail built from heavier cloth than the standard Laser item will last longer too. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 3:01pm
| How quaint you're considering one of the white sails. These days you have the extra choice of the Bethwaite "Dontcha Wish Your Laser Rig Was Hot Like Me" C rigs inspired by the Pussycat Dolls and the LP "Handbags and Gladrags" ARC rigs inspired by Rod Stewart. |
Posted By: Mark Aged 42
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 3:17pm
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I have a Lennon sail full size and a Holt radial. Both are like new, and perform better than 20 year old shagged out sails by a huge amount. I strongly suspect the differences between products from the different replica brands are insignificant. As we used to say in windsurfing - "Just rig it and sail it". A new sail from any brand will feel really good compared to what you have now, and in particular help you enjoy the stronger winds, where a flatter (un stretched) sail will be manageable. You didnt say if your boat has any XD kit. If it doesnt, invest in the XD kicker as a minimum.
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Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 5:09pm
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It's worth looking at Intensity Sail in the US http://www.intensitysails.com/prsaforlamk2.html Sail is currently $150, shipping will be about $75 for one sail or $85 for two. On top of that, you may or may not get charged Import Duty at 12% and VAT on top at 20% Which makes it about the same as some of the others, but it's in 4.5oz Challenge Dacron. Unfortunately it will arrive folded. In my view, the differences between Mk1 and Mk2 are minor, maybe the Mk1 would actually be a little more versatile, setting reasonably with less kicker in lighter air, if pretty much all Mk1 sails weren't clapped out now. Small differences show up in class racing, half a boat length gets you 1st at the mark but doesn't matter that much on PY very often. The 'class compliant' illegal sail from Laser is nicer than most replicas IMHO. There seems to be a steady trickle of unused Mk1s on Facebook or ebay, might be worth considering for light air venues or perhaps if you are on the light side? Has anyone seen one of those ARC rigs? looked a bit creased in the photo?
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Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 6:42pm
| Replica sails are notoriously band imitations and in my opinion are a false economy. You are much better off buying a second hand lightly used sail from olympic campagainer. Mark 2 is the only way to go a much nicer sail and lasts much longer. Does require a slightly different setup though |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 6:59pm
If you come across genuinely lightly used sails at a fair price, the are great, but an awful lot of people will advertise sails as 'excellent' if they don't actually have any holes in. The squaddies seem to use their sails in a lot of wind and leave them flapping a lot, a week of that is equivalent to a season's fair use in a class where sails get raised and dropped at the water's edge. I think someone on here suggested getting the same 'replica' as your mates, so you get the closest thing to level raciing? I have bought plenty of secondhand sails in other classes.
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 11:03pm
I think that's probably not true, Laser branded sails are notoriously expensive (as, indeed are many SMOD sails, if you have a monopoly, milk it, is good business practice) there is no reason why a replica should be inferior to a class legal/button fitted sail. There are certainly good reasons for a class to have a single builder/sailmaker (and not only SMOD classes) but they don't apply across the board. I'm sure there are some cheap, poorly made replicas out there but there are many made by reputable sailmakers that are every bit as well made as an original. There are even some mk2 replicas appearing (I can't imagine this is remotely sub-standard https://www.roostersailing.com/pd/Replacement-MK2-Standard-Laser-Sail-Combo-Deal_107523.htm" rel="nofollow - https://www.roostersailing.com/pd/Replacement-MK2-Standard-Laser-Sail-Combo-Deal_107523.htm which should be a good option for the club sailor.
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 11:50am
That is made of 3.8oz cloth. The Laser 'no button' sail is made of 4.5oz cloth like the class legal one. A sail made from 4.5oz cloth of a known brand seems appealing to me. But any of these sails will be a great improvement over an ancient original sail. Differences between them will be relatively minor. For PY racing best bet is keep the Laser for very windy days and buy a nicer boat for enjoyable sailing.
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 12:20pm
Good point, I should have read the specs more closely, the LP training sail also uses "longer lasting' 3.8 oz dacron (but the class compliant/legal LP sail uses "longer lasting' 4.5 oz sailcloth.....)
Yup
Definitely  Or, better still buy a Blaze and enjoy the windy days too  ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 7:15pm
| Having used both the Rooster and no button laser sail this is my feeling is that although very cheap the rooster sail is definatly off the mark. The no button sail from LP is much better but the quality control is poor so the shape is very hit and miss depending on the sail. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 10:56pm
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TBF the Rooster is a competitor for the LP 'Training Sail' rather than the no button 'Class Compliant' version which is £130 cheaper than the 'with button' 'Class Legal' version and should be identical to it in every respect.
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 11 Dec 19 at 10:25am
| Thanks for the feedback. I've got XD kit on the boat as my kids used to use it. Sounds like a I should look at a mk2 sail and not be too bothered about the replica bit given my laser open days are way in the past. I see that LP "non class legal" sails are coming up on ebay at very cheap prices, will look out for one of these or a replica from a known source like MSB or Rooster sails. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 11 Dec 19 at 11:37am
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My pal has an MSB Blaze replica and it's very well made indeed (the proverbial concrete toilet TBH). ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |