Structure
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13458
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 2:07pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Structure
Posted By: Oinks
Subject: Structure
Date Posted: 07 Nov 19 at 11:24pm
| Once upon a time classes were categorised by Olympic class, International, National...and all the rest. It seems we've lost that a long time ago. Just looking at the "Laser Club Edition" thread. It just seems we once had some sort of structure and now anything goes. I just wonder whether dinghy sailing as a competitive sport just needs to get back to something similar to that sort of structure. What might that structure be? I know its anathema to a "Dinghy Development" forum! |
Replies:
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 7:01am
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Not many clubs are still restricting the number of classes that can be raced. I remember thinking how old fashioned and out of date this type of restriction was but perhaps they were right.
Rather than working to support and ( within the rules) improve a class, the drive is to constantly add " new" classes. Anything not selling in sufficient numbers is ditched- not unreasonable in some cases but as this becomes the norm, the constant addition accelerates. By changing from class racing to a group of assorted boats racing, the motivation to get out and race your fellow like minded sailors is reduced. Access to the experience of others in particular boat is reduced. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 10:34am
Extreme case but if in the 60's every club had fleet racing only there would be no opportunity for new boats and we would still all be sailing Ents, GP, Solos and Merlins (other pre-'69 classes exist). So, no skiffs or 400s and, no Lasers 
This was not the case though so the change was member driven, if a club doesn't offer racing for the class you own or want to sail you would change clubs, any club not offering what enough people wanted to sail would wither and die. Even in the '80s I was aware of a couple of clubs that only allowed certain classes (Hollingworth Lake SC and Pilkingtons IIRC, the latter sailing only Enterprises, the former Merlins, Solos, GPs plus a couple of others). Both now have handicap fleets. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 10:46am
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I think the structure is still there, but it has become a bit blurred by the proliferation of classes. World Sailing (ISAF as was) seem to have claimed the term 'World Championship' somehow so classes which are not recognised as international (Solo, Wayfarer) have to name their milti-national events something else. Solo : Nations Cup? Wayfarer : Internationals? ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 10:47am
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I can see the downside in restricting classes but if we had fixed at some point including the Laser we would also miss out on the diversity which reduces commitment to come and sail. And would have escaped from the horde of plastic moulded boats hiding in the nettles of most dinghy parks
The other issue is the " different rig" option boats. A smaller rig to get kids into the fleet is fine but having a range of rigs loses the advantage a lightweight or heavyweight used to have in extreme conditions. And the skills involved in adjusting the rig is not the important factor it used to be |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 10:49am
Perhaps a touch exaggerated. Even clubs with strict fleet only policies would drop and adopt classes from time to time. What's ironic is that there were many more new classes introduced back then than there are now. |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 10:51am
And I believe that World Sailing has voted to have kite surfing in the Olympics? Clearly TV sales are more important that promoting sailing. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 10:57am
Agreed Jim, but those new classes had to start developing in the handicap fleets at clubs which had them before becoming popular enough to be considered by fleet only clubs. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 11:00am
A regular review is sensible. It's the acceptance of all boats with no consideration that stops the creation of support groups within clubs and the motivation to get out and race. I would suggest that clubs promoting "suggested boats" whilst allowing most others is a reasonable compromise. |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 3:08pm
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I suspect that clubs dictating what people sailed went out of fashion when the iron curtain came down and we moved away from calling each other "Comrade". Sometimes it does surprise me that sailing ever survived the boomers. ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 4:11pm
Dictating is not the way, suggesting is the way forward ( comrades). Rather than just promoting a club to get members with any boat, promoting a selection of classes and gently push those that fill a niche. Now of course every club needs a single hander for perhaps those moving on from double handers ,something that is easier to recover and with some class? I dont see that suggesting to new members and actively marketing some classes is anything but positive. And if someone wishes to join with the first boat in the club of a class fine, but once in perhaps they will be attracted by some of the small fleet groups talking after racing? |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 4:46pm
Agreed if we don't give new boats the opportunity to gain a foothold in a handicap fleet they will never reach critical mass. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 7:19pm
Historically, and even recently, not all classes have started out in handicap fleets. It's not unknown for a group of people in a club to get together and decide to all buy the same boat. Or it's kicked off by a club buying a group of boats for training or charter. There are still a lot of OD fleets around, and recent new ones. But many people wanting OD racing seem to find it from keelboats. Personally, I like to do a variety of racing. Sail an old laser when nothing else is on offer, crew something high performance the next week, race yachts on some Sundays.
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