Sequence of Races
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13384
Printed Date: 24 Jun 25 at 5:40pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Sequence of Races
Posted By: sargesail
Subject: Sequence of Races
Date Posted: 17 Aug 19 at 7:49pm
I have been looking at the RRS and Call Book to try and put my mind at rest but can’t find what I thought I would:
If a race, say race 4, is abandoned or general recalled one afternoon, and there is nothing in the SIs but a schedule of races, then the race which then takes place the next day is Race 4?
If abandoned before starting then any BFDs would not count.
But if general recalled or abandoned after starting then the BFD carries forward...and actually it is irrelevant whether the race is called race 4 or 5?
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Replies:
Posted By: GML
Date Posted: 17 Aug 19 at 9:00pm
If a race is abandoned then, unless the NoR or SIs say otherwise, it is up to the race committee to decide whether or not to resail the race - the definition of 'abandon' in the RRS says the race "may" be resailed, but doesn't require it. In such circumstances it would probably be prudent for the race committee to post a notice to competitors advising them as to whether the race is to be resailed.
If the start of a race is general recalled and the race committee isn't going to run another start for that race that day then they should probably postpone or abandon that race by displaying AP over H, AP over A, N over H, or N over A (see RRS 29.2 and 27.3). If they postpone the race then, unless they do something to change the situation, the first start on the next day will (in my view) be a restart of the race that was postponed. If they abandon the race then, as above, I think they have the option as to whether or not they resail that race on the next day (and would be well advised to post a notice informing competitors of their decision).
But in any case, in my view, if a race is general recalled or abandoned after the start then BFDs carry forward only if that race is restarted or resailed, not if the race is permanently abandoned (see RRS 30.4).
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Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 17 Aug 19 at 9:21pm
So the RC has an ‘out’ if it General Recalls and wants to avoid substantial numbers of BFD, in that it can choose to proceed to race 5 rather than resail or restart race 4?
I had always thought there was a distinction between abandoning a race (between the warning signal and the finish) and abandoning racing - an instruction to competitors between races. Perhaps I was reading too much into the sequential construction of Rule 27.
I would have thought a notice to the effect that The race was abandoned and would not be resailed would be a requirement not a nice to have.
Because I had always taken (30.4) ‘if the race is restarted or resailed she shall not start in it,’ to mean the next attempt to start a race IF ONE OCCURRED, or if it were a particular trophy for say, ‘Thd Tuesday Points Race’.
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Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 18 Aug 19 at 1:39am
Originally posted by sargesail
I have been looking at the RRS and Call Book to try and put my mind at rest but can’t find what I thought I would:
If you're looking at the Call Books for MR/TR, you'd better also look at Race Management Manual Part T for MR, and the Model SI for MR an TR. Typically abandoning racing at the end of a day will curtail a round, and is a bit of a minefield.
If a race, say race 4, is abandoned or general recalled one afternoon, and there is nothing in the SIs but a schedule of races, then the race which then takes place the next day is Race 4?
Yes, unless the race committee announces otherwise, or maybe the SI might expressly schedule race 5 on the following day, say for a special commemorative race. It would be Race 4 if it was restarted on the same day, why should the following day be any different?
Different for a weekly series where the race is usually left to stand and scored ABN for each boat.
The aim is to keep the series scores reports simple and unconfusing.
As GML says, the race committee would need to signal AP or N over A to get the boats off the water.
If abandoned before starting then any BFDs would not count.
Yes.
But if general recalled or abandoned after starting then the BFD carries forward...and actually it is irrelevant whether the race is called race 4 or 5?
No. Rule 30.4 refers to 'that race', that would be Race 4, the abandoned race, so BFD exclusion won't apply to race 5.
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Originally posted by sargesail
So the RC has an ‘out’ if it General Recalls and wants to avoid substantial numbers of BFD, in that it can choose to proceed to race 5 rather than resail or restart race 4?
Yes they could, but remember the purpose of the BFD exclusion is to attrite the fleet, by reducing the overall number of starters and reducing the number of 'eager beavers'.
If the race committee thought that a large number of BFDs resulted from race committee errors or mischance, rather than mess around with not restarting, and skipping the race, they might just conveniently find that they had been unable to identify BFD boats, and/or not display their numbers.
I had always thought there was a distinction between abandoning a race (between the warning signal and the finish) and abandoning racing - an instruction to competitors between races. Perhaps I was reading too much into the sequential construction of Rule 27.
Well, there's a difference between abandoning before and after a race starts (rule 30.4), but warning or prep signals don't make a difference,
I would have thought a notice to the effect that The race was abandoned and would not be resailed would be a requirement not a nice to have.
Yes. I think that the 'default' is that the race is resailed immediately following the abandonment, and no notice is required.
Suppose, as I suggested above, the SI/NOR schedule prevented the immediate re-sail (because of a trophy race or whatever), the race committee might 'keep the abandoned race up its sleeve' and delay deciding whether or not to resail it until later in the series, possibly considering whether or not it would significantly affect prize positions.
But I think the race committee should notify competitors that the race will not be resailed as soon as they make that decision. Whether or not the race is to be resailed can affect the tactics an regatta strategy of competitors.
Because I had always taken (30.4) ‘if the race is restarted or resailed she shall not start in it,’ to mean the next attempt to start a race IF ONE OCCURRED, or if it were a particular trophy for say, ‘Thd Tuesday Points Race’. |
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