Europe dinghy rig mod
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13264
Printed Date: 02 Jun 25 at 12:08am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Europe dinghy rig mod
Posted By: Rusty69
Subject: Europe dinghy rig mod
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 12:07pm
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Apologies if this is the wrong section. I have a Europe dinghy, which in my older years I am having trouble getting under the boom. I was looking to buy a solo instead (see my other thread on car topping). However, another thought. How easy would it be to either reduce the length of the leach on my existing sail, or raise the boom and fit another sail. How much would drilling new holes higher up weaken the mast? What sail would likely fit if I were to raise the boom, by say 6-8 inches? Thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 12:31pm
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It should be fairly straight forward for a sailmaker to take 6 inches or so off the leech to raise the boom up a bit but I'd suggest leaving the gooseneck and sail track opening where they are. Before you jump to the Solo remember that unlike the Europe or OK where the cockpit is completely clear behind the traveller, the Solo has a long and wide centreboard capping and you end up having your upper body being squeezed between it and the boom unless you really move right aft. Try one first as always is the advice ------------- OK 2249 D-1 138 |
Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 12:35pm
Thanks .I hadn't thought of that.
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Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 1:25pm
| Some classes I've sailed used to have a leech flattener, which is sort of like a cunningham for the leech. When its fully on it does lift the end of the boom, pics on this on a Lark from the HD sails website http://www.hdsails.com/home/new-lark-additions/ |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 1:31pm
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Your problem is very similar to quite a few members at my club and probably repeated nationwide.
Most of members at my club with similar issues have opted for 2 handers. |
Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 1:43pm
That looks good. Maybe i could fit a topping lift 
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Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 1:44pm
Alas,, it is just me. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 2:12pm
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Rusty69, They sail solo, most of the older members don't go out in strong winds anyway, so sailing a 2 hander not an issue.
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Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 2:15pm
Ah, ok. |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 2:23pm
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Ref. the Solo ... there are two common rake settings, based upon the mast foot position. The aft, more upright position (3055mm) leaves a lot more room under the boom, and should work fine for most people. The more raked position (3070mm) is more relevant for open water F4+. The current trend is to sail more on the mainsheet and traveller, rather than the kicker, which also makes tacking easier. In the Solo you are allowed a shorter leech, though I am not sure anyone does it. There was a proposal to restyle the aft end of the centreboard case a few years ago, which was rejected by the class; some like the handles to assist recovery after a capsize, it is also a handy foot rest when hiking for long periods of time! ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 4:43pm
| Shortening the leech is an obvious thing to try. See if you can find an old sail to cut about. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 8:06pm
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Shortening the leech will affect how the boat sails upwind, as you will no longer be able to park the boom on the deck.
My solution was to buy a Lightning 368. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 8:08pm
There is a nice one on ebay at the moment.If only I had a towbar. ETA. Does the lightning give much more room than the europe beneath the boom?
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 8:28pm
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Yes. The cockpit is deeper and the boom higher. You still have to duck and grovel a little if you get it wrong of course! Easy to put on a roof, too, though you need to widen the bars a little. No more than for the Europe, though. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 10:15pm
Cant see it making a lot of difference TBH. At the luff, sure, there's a buge pressure difference and end plating has a great big effect, but at the leech, where its already a mass of turbulence from the downward angled boom, I really would take a bit of convincing. |
Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 10:20pm
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Or do both - get a 368 and shorten the leach slightly too. I tried out a 368 last year, though ended up buying a Europe (out of familiarity and just what happened to be on the market at the time, both are great boats with friendly classes). Managed to bang my head on the boom on the first tack in both boats...  You might find, coming from a Europe, that you feel like you're going to run straight off the side of the Lightning. It feels a lot narrower!
I think there are quite a few people looking for Europes at the moment. |
Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 23 Feb 19 at 7:01am
Ha. No room for both. I love the Europe, but i am too tall for it. It was a mistake buying it, although i have had fun. I should have bought something bigger to start with. |
Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 23 Feb 19 at 10:39am
| The obvious solution is an aero. Lightweight and loads of headroom. It doesn't have a deep cockpit but then neither do the other boats being discussed. |
Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 23 Feb 19 at 10:57am
Don't you need deep pockets for an aero? I only remember the chocolate bars.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 23 Feb 19 at 10:59am
| Aero totally unsuitable to be left on a sea wall, very delicate build. |
Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 23 Feb 19 at 11:19am
Sorry - bad phrasing on my part - I mean get the 368, sell the Europe and then shorten the leach of the 368s main = even more space.
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Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 23 Feb 19 at 1:50pm
| It depends on your definition of deep. There certainly arent any old ,bargin basement Aeros yet. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Feb 19 at 8:05pm
It's not about end plating, but about mast rake, bend and sheeting angles. I'm sure a proper Europe or Finn sailor can explain it better. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 23 Feb 19 at 8:16pm
| Lift the boom and shorten the sail by removing top triangle, turn it into a big head sail. |
Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 24 Feb 19 at 12:04pm
Possibly mast rake - but sheeting angle and mast bend can be set just the same without the boom needing to touch the deck, I think it just provides a repeatable point for a given rake.
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Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 24 Feb 19 at 1:46pm
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Hub Rusty69, are you on Facebook? If so, have a look at the UK Europe Sailors page, for a great resource for questions like you have about a short-leach sail.
If you are convinced that selling the Europe is the way forward for you, drop me a message and I’ll send you a pro-forma, that once completed will allow me to match your boat up with one of the people we have looking to buy a Europe. Cheers, Jon ------------- |
Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 24 Feb 19 at 2:08pm
Thanks Jon. No, i am not on Facebook. Maybe time to sign up. I am just exploring options at the moment tbh. Are there many people looking for Europe dinghies. I got the impression when i bought mine a few years ago they weren't that popular. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 24 Feb 19 at 6:05pm
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Back in the early 90s, I believe some fairly handy Contender sailors had sails with a shortened leach. Didn't seem to do them any harm in the front half of the fleet. But my limited knowledge of Europes is that there is a huge range of sail cuts and mast characteristics?
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Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 24 Feb 19 at 11:47pm
Well they’ve never been a huge Class in the UK, but we’ve seen a considerable upsurge in interest and traffic through the Facebook page. We are currently trying to find under-used boats of all conditions for people that have made enquiries, and have got a pretty good programme of events lined up for this year, including the Nationals at WPNSA, Inlands (shared with the Finns) at Oxford and are planning more Training Days, the first being just before theNats, with an ex-Olympic Europe competitor coaching us!!!! As you’ll know, Europe’s are (currently) extremely well priced, but with increased interest, participation, training racing and group road-trips to Continental European competitions, who can say how long that will last. With the re-stucturing in the Assc that’s taken place, it’s planned that this year’s Dinghy Show will be the last one without a Europe Class stand - 2019 into 2020 is going to be big for growth and development!👍🏽😎🕺 ------------- |
Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 25 Feb 19 at 9:32am
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Shortening the leach wont effect affect how the boat sails unduly but it will make it harder to find the sweet spot. Adjusting the sail in relation to the deck is the easy way of ensuring that you are sailing the same way on both tacks. Raising it up will make this much harder. The most important lesson I learnt when I first got in a Europe is dont use the too much kicker, use the sheet and traveller. This way the bendy mast lifts the boom up and you get loads of room to move. Downwind you dont need so much any way and upwind you get all your tension from the main sheet. Offwind, or when its really windy you will need the kicker, but then just get in the habit of letting some off just before a maneuver. Obviously you can still be to big for the boat but when you get used to letting the mast pick up the boom there really is plenty of space. ------------- RS300 |
Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 25 Feb 19 at 9:46am
Thanks for the tips. I will give it a go next time I'm out.
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