As I'm looking for a singlehander at the moment a few of the options, for the budget ,appearing are boats that were launched at around the same time. There seems to be have been a lot of innovation around the time, late 90's. Some have stuck, some haven't. Perhaps it was RS pushing things (think it was still LDC at the time?) or maybe the sailing community was ready for something new and different.

MX-Ray

RS300

Laser EPS

Laser Vortex

Blaze

RS 600

RS Vareo

If it had been launched a bit sooner than the 'ray think I would have had the 300 instead, just based on that press photo of the black hulled boat sliding along.

RS300 if you're looking for a challenging but rewarding ride and don't mind plenty of swimming when the wind tops F5

Blaze if you're a larger chap and want blasting upwind and down in F5 or more

RS600 if you're after a challenge and don't want to hike

Also consider RS100, D-One, D-Zero.

More that as I've been looking at used boats, a few come from around that time period and it just seemed that there was a glut of 'different' designs - performance singlehanders being put to market around then. I can't think of much choice in singlehanders before then - but thats probably as I wasn't sailing anything much then.

Is it comparable to the 60's growth in number of classes? I don't have any figures so just guessing really over a cuppa. I suspect the quantity of boats being built will be greater back then though.

OK

Finn

Solo

Contender

Int Canoe

A Class Cat

Moth

Optimist

Europe

There were others like the Sabot and Sunfish and I think the Toy came along around then but the ones above are the boats that I was aware of at the time (as well as I can recall anyway).

'Laser' inevitably gets mentioned...

They were indeed and, as you say, still are. The Int Moth has changed significantly since then while the British Moth has not but both are still active classes (for a given definition of active, neither are 'dead/lost' classes by any measure).

Think the Streaker and possibly Supernova go quite a way back as well.

Unicorn?

Partially true and sortof in the right direction  ... but you don't have to be that large (Champions have been as light at 70kg and as heavy as 97kg) .. or sail in a true F5 for that matter.   Once the wings come into play upwind, and that is well before a full F5 and without depowering, you can sail to 'par' with practice.... and when you get to fully hike offwind it really flies.   Not for everyone of course ... but well worth everyone at least trying once.   

FWIW Streaker was introduced in '76, the Unicorn was an A Class designed in '66 (I seriously lusted after one of those). Topper was designed in 1977 and Supernova a veritable newcomer from 1996. And, yes 423zero, apologies for missing out the Minisail (1959/60).

Interesting discussion.

edit :- I love my Blaze (even on a little lake) it's definitely one to try especially if you sail on open water. It is, as Cirrus says, a flyer offwind in a decent breeze but is still remarkably forgiving and the rig is controllable up to winds I would not take a Laser out in.

@ Cirrus I have the same thoughts on the Vortex too, something I'd like to try the once.

But then I'm quite shallow. I drive an old Alfa, because of how it looks, because its not easy to drive like a modern car, but it is rewarding.

I'm going to end up with a Finn aren't I?

The Blaze is very accessible - even the old one I tried a few times before Cirrus improved them significantly.  You could get a lot of boat for your money compared to Finn pricing... and if you sail in heavier wind they might also prove a more comfortable boat to leave in second gear when/if you’re feeling a bit knackered halfway up the beat.   

As for the Vortex.... m’eh.  

Of course, 5' 10" and 80kg is a pretty good height and weight for many other boats too (OK, Solution, Blaze, Supernova, RS100, RS300, Contender, at the light end but still in the range for Finn and Phantom just for a start) so 432zero has a fair bit of choice 

Mentioning no names, but does not require you to either kneel in the middle on some of the most abrasive non slip produced in the light stuff, or hang over what feels like a scaffold pole if it's breezy in one case, or suck you into a world of individually matched and gobsmackingly expensive unstayed masts, in an other case.  And you might not do yourself a mischief pulling a H2 up the slipway - its WAY lighter than the two alluded to above. 

Secondhand, the class is still quite new, so not cheap as chips, but as H2 says the H2 Facebook page is the place to go -  super helpful.  Well worth a trial sail, they are lovely boats which seem happy enough inland and on the sea.

FWIW I don't find that scaff pole at all uncomfortable to hang over (I don't know why 'cos, in theory, it should be torture), maybe I just don't hike hard enough (I did buy some hikers but have yet to use them, perhaps I should...).

I always found the Blaze very comfy but then I came from a Laser so sitting on glass would be comfy. I was fun to pass them all going upwind as you power perch on the rack and they are all gurning from the effort.

I have had a break from dinghy sailing admittedly.

Due to various logistic reasons I made a switch to board sailing, so not quite ready for a Solo yet - not as though anyone has suggested it. H2 does appeal to me, just not the budget.

Club where I sailed a few years ago there was a noticeable switch in what was being sailed over a few years as the regular racers aged, firstly from Laser to Radial rigs, then to Streakers.

Think that Dave Butler was a member at the time and building them may have swayed a few.

That's just individual preferences, though, Sam. I'm exactly your weight and just an inch taller, and I'm quite happy on the Laser as are friends the same sort of height and weight.

I'm not saying it's the boat for everyone, but your preferences were probably the issue (which is of course perfectly fine) and not your physique.

You need an RS300 or a D-Zero at that weight! Perfecct.

Originally posted by Chris 249 That's just individual preferences, though, Sam. I'm exactly your weight and just an inch taller, and I'm quite happy on the Laser as are friends the same sort of height and weight.

If you enjoy the challenge of sailing a Laser in return for the close fleet racing then that is indeed personal preference but that doesn't make the Laser a nice boat to sail for us short ar5es. I won't argue that it has many qualities but see #jeffers comment above WRT the physical effort required. And I agree that can be part of the attraction for some/many just not for me with my slightly dodgy knees and back (not that I actually ever really enjoyed sailing a Laser even when bits of me were not doing a Sandhurst graduate impression). If I still had a Laser I would probably enjoy the racing (in fact I'm sure I would) but I doubt I would ever just 'go for a sail' something I do all the time on the Blaze.

As you say, personal preference, my dad was 5' 3" and about 75kg and he raced a Laser for many years (but I don't recall him ever sailing it outside of racing).

Over the last year I have tested the aero and zero too. The zero is still my favourite but the solution runs it very close. 

That was my plan. Lol Was looking for a relively cheap second boat to replace the laser. That plan is now on hold. That’s how much I didn’t like the width

Extreme width does mean that extreme hiking doesn't reward the energetic quite as much as in a narrower boat so taking a breather upwind when it's blowing doesn't carry the same penalty but hiking hard for as long as you can still pays off.

That assumes your CG is directly over the gunwale when perching and 50cm from it when hiking hard. A Laser is 145cm wide so, in round figures the perching leverage is half that or 73cm and the hiking leverage is 123cm, going from hiking to perching reduces the leverage by 41%. In the Blaze those figures are 125cm and 175cm, a difference of 29%.

The wide boat delivers more power for the guy wanting to perch too, 71% more in a Blaze compared to a Laser. and a perching sailor in a Blaze still has more leverage than a hard hiking Laseratti. In both cases the loss of power is significant though and ain't gonna win you races 

Yes, well, if we're going for a numerical approach then let me proffer this bad boy:

Perching (P) versus Hinking (H) where overall energy output (OO) = the amount of arse projected beyond one's dinghies' centreline.

Therefore, maximizing your dangling provides the maximum amount of POOH.

Whereas balancing ones nether regions on the edge of a rack, gunwhale or sliding seat can also provides leverage, but in some or most cases, for a lot less POOH.

Or it could just be BS depending on the amount of leg pulling you are willing to do (quite literally) of a Friday lunchtime.

I'll get me coat.......

Nothing to do with the dealer, the used boats have all been snapped up with fleets growing and an explosion of growth north of the border.

Do think the dealer offering a brokerage service has helped firm up prices too. Am very impressed with the professionalism of your new dealer.

That has helped with those wanting to do trade ins certainly as the dealer has a list of people who are interested but cannot run to a brand new boat so putting them in touch has helped for definite.

The last boat I know to have sold was GBR177 which is around 3 1/2 years old and was for sale for £4,400 so a pretty good residual. Really early boats do go for less when they come up but don't hang around for long.

I wasn't, just stating the facts as they are. the dealer has done some brokerage for people and others have changed hands via the CA facebook page et al. You were selling at what turned out to be a quiet time. Things picked up dramatically at the end of the season with all the used boats that came up selling very quickly indeed.

What you need is a 300, while it goes through every wave, it’s so fine a bow you start to think it’s a design feature, 

Fish aint biting today......

But when a mere muppet pondie like me can get it round the track in big waves then the wave handling ability of the boat isn't in question.

No problem

Exactly - He'll have to up his game a fair way based on recent 'form' seen on here.  The 'oracle' of all things is sadly not what he once was of course...   

Nice guy though, if it’s the same chap!  A well sailed 300 is a sight to behold in windy weather mind.... they really are fantastic dinghies, if a little misunderstood.

+1 the yoofs pull those and more in Toppers ... lets get onto a more meaningful page of debate pls

And it also comes with a built in insulated box, for cold beverages, or quite possibly for keeping a between race pie warm. Why do Phantoms not have these?

The very best kind of person!

Originally posted by iGRF Rupertson has left home! But but.. but that was only five minutes ago that FOM.. I'm still sailing the boat I used there it can't be that long ago..

 

2012 but at your age that's not very long I guess