However, I think the same level of investment, if you combined all the various sporting bodies ancillary staff and operating expenditure, put back into grass roots physical education: educating the educators that 1hr of compulsory PE isn't enough for most kids, would be far better for society as a whole- especially to offset a sedentary lifestyle the 21st century has bestowed upon them.  

No brainer really when you compare the global fat stats of under 20s.... but hey, we like gold shiny things and bit of flag waving ever four years to remind the world how f**king superior we are.... it helps us take more share of world resources and get fatter at least.  Quite ironic when you think about it!!!

We seem to have two attitudes to 'sport' in this country, most 'professional' sport supports the 'win at all costs' attitude where the concept of fair play seems long gone. In schools we seem to eschew sports where there are winners and losers in case the poor dears develop an inferiority complex if they don't win. Both approaches are abhorrent, one encourages cheating and the other supports the drive for the lowest common denominator.....

My beef is with blatant cheating, i.e. deliberate and calculated attempts to affect results by actions clearly outside the letter and spirit of the rules of the sport in question.

nacra 17 bearings & J70 keels anyone?

So Fletcher was not only a famous loser, but someone whose loss kicked off racing in centreboard boats. And so ends today's trivia session.

Though that's a complex issue in itself.

How do you define participation? What if your sport has a huge recreational base that has little to do with a tiny competitive side (e.g. kayaking)? Or if it's clouded even further by transport, recreational and competitive aspects (e.g. cycling).

Also isn't it to a degree like trying to hit a moving target? As sports develop those managing it are most often drawn from the keenest/most skilled end of the spectrum and tend to only see things through their own experience. So inexorably the sport shifts away from the accessible middle ground. 

Today's popular participation sport is tomorrow's elitist one; SUP is off down the same path that kayaking took - no waterline beam restriction - so boards are getting narrower and narrower, with a predictable outcome.

Or motorsport if you include transport participation.. 

Yep, those are interesting points. I'm assuming that participation will be tracked using the existing national censuses and similar databases. It's not too hard to do things like separating cycling into "sport" and "transportation" forms - it's done in our census or similar studies down here.

Wouldn't the funding bodies see kayaking as a poster child for what they are trying to achieve and would tell other sports to go out and encourage a similarly huge recreational base? Kayaking could also seem to be a classic example of a sport where the huge recreational base and the small competitive cadre are so separate that it proves that the old funding model was a failure, in that few people seemed to be turned onto kayaking by looking at the Olympians.

You're dead right, IMHO, about the trend to elitism in sports officials and equipment. Those trends have been very bad for mass participation so surely it's a good thing if officials and manufacturers now have more incentive to ensure that the gear they select for comps is also more closely linked to what the masses can use to get active on the weekend. I know in the '80s some people inside windsurfing warned about the trend to elitism, so we know that some people can foresee it. Now the administrators jobs will depend on looking out for it! We also know that sports as large as cycling spotted the issue and brought in rules that mean that even the major events are done on mass-participation gear, so it can be done.

IMHO this is a healthy trend. Those who actually study these things have spent decades saying that funding the elite does not encourage fitness. Now there is also, finally, some sign that causes like technological overshoot are being studied. Hopefully this could see sailing, and other sports, grow once again.

I think sailing and yacht clubs need to engage in other water sports, since the demographic appears to have changed toward a desire to dip in and out of different sports ... sailing clubs need to make the most of their USPs ... typically a social facility with good access to the water.

Indeed, I think some other countries (Spain comes to mind) have this model. Integration is probably quite a difficult issue. The canoe club I'm a member of is part of a watersports association including rowing, dragonboat and dive clubs all sharing the same premises. It would be an understatement to say they don't play well together...

That said, perhaps sailing clubs are a little more open minded? It certainly looks as if over the long term integration of kayaking and SUP into sailing clubs could cut the rug out from under the feet of canoe clubs.

Back to the original article - it could be viewed that the large size of the sailing team is not so much down to the profligacy of the governing body, but just a simple function of the excessive number of events allowed for what is a minority sport.

The general public probably can't tell a Finn from a 49er and don't really care. The 'it must represent all aspects of our sport' is only of interest to a small number of people who are already sailors.

Better to promote 2-3 classes well rather than 10 at the present level of mediocrity. Killing two birds with one stone - cheaper national teams and a cheaper olympic regatta (that could also go to more venues, maybe ones that actually have some wind...).  

I've been in a club where rowers used the clubhouse, and one where dozens of dragon boaters were members of the larger club that ended up owning the clubhouse. No one ever moved across from rowing or paddling to sailing, as far as I know.

If you look at the history of US dinghy sailing, you see many clubs that opened to door to non-sailing members, and which have now basically stopped sailing. After all, if the number of non-sailing members is large enough to be worthwhile, won't they form a voting bloc that demands significant concessions?  We've had situations here where people complained that they would be "second class members" if a club simply tried to promote one designs - wouldn't the same complain be raised by the SOTters and SUPpers, and as members wouldn't their demands have to be met?

I've sailed at one UK sailing/canoe club. but apparently they were basically two clubs anyway, so what was the gain?

I guess we went down the multi sports route because we thought is was the "right" thing to do, as it was on the radar for grant bodies/local councils and other potential local influences for one thing and we felt a certain amount of obligation having been awarded a fair amount of public money for new facilities over the years. And yet with hindsight I would be very wary about doing it again. Lack of cross over is one thing, but the main thing for me is how culturally different other sports can be. My club comes from the volunteer tradition, ie our older members physically built the club, we still have no paid staff, and there remains a strong volunteer ethos. Some of the other sports we work with are more akin to pay and play, they rock up, pay, go for a swim or whatever, and afterwards get changed and go home leaving someone else to clear up their mess. 

Perhaps it depends on the sports and the clubs you align with, our scouts and sea cadets appear to be well led and leave the place better than they found it so they are always welcome. They also turn up and help on open days and work parties. So I guess I'm saying in a long winded way that multi sports can go well or for ill, but needs some thought. 

And long may that continue if it works for the active members, however I do think that there is a sustainability issue there for a number of organisations that run on that basis.

Bottom line from a SUP owner, I can SUP for free (OK a BCU licence ought to apply) on any number of inland water ways and coastal beaches.... so the question that needs asking is, what does a SUP owner get for their membership fees at the local sailing club?   

The answer is infrastructure - if you can make it an attractive enough proposition.... the comraderie of people to paddle / sail with is easily sourced on Facebook, so “club spirit’ is a little out-moded.  And as for ‘the opportunity’ to work for free in the galley, clean the gents bogs after the Phantom Open and/or pull silly flags up poles to countdown timers in a fly-infested shed, really isn’t going to do it for them.

A very difficult problem to solve.

I agree 100% ... that’s just common courtesy.  

And no doubt all sports think their culture is the definitive one and nobody would ever be willing to consider changing or compromising! I suspect that in some ways it's sailing's culture that could do with changing.

The volunteering is always presented here as a generational thing, but that doesn't bear out with canoeing, I don't think our canoe club is unique in having the a full range of ages represented both on the committee and the other volunteering positions, including the coaches. 

The coaching as a volunteering gig is far more onerous in terms of time and money, but it's key to the culture of the sport. We hold 3 x 6 week beginners courses each summer, retention after the 1st year might be 1/3rd, but nobody gets their knickers in a twist about 'churn' or suggests we stop offering the courses. Culturally coaching is seen as an end in itself and the effort as necessary to keep the club growing. It also has the side effect of the coach and the other course members providing a ready made peer group that starts the process of binding people into the club socially, so those who decide they enjoy it do stay.

What's the average sailing club offer for a beginner? Maybe you might get a level 1 & 2 out of the club. After that you're on your own in the yawning, multi year gulf between L2 and competent club racer. Sailing is probably the most complex sport going and yet we don't really offer anything to guide people along the huge learning curve or link them very well socially (not helped by the relatively narrow demographics). A shift in the culture to see improving people's skills as a goal, rather than just the same few names on a tin pot might be a start... 

My previous club and present would have and would welcome new blood. I'm lined up for Commodore come Nov and I'm not overrun with old farts hanging on or young blood wanting the job of Vice. 

Most old farts I know are hanging on way past their sell by date as no one else will take the job on. So when they eventually do come off the committee (and this especially applies to the real crap jobs like Commodore) no one ever sees them again as they are so relieved to get their lives back.

Personally I did about 10 years on my club committee doing most roles,  and I would never but never do that again. I've got a senior high level day job in a very competitive industry and it's a doddle compared to being commodore of  a sailing club !!   

And not having to listen to people like you makes me very glad I am no longer on a committee. Too many whiny know alls who want to pontificate and let someone else mow the grass, organise the sailing programme and rota's, paint the clubhouse. clean the clubhouse. man (or woman) the galley and the 1001 other things that go to keep a club's doors open.

With the greatest of respect you don't seem to have a clue. Now if you've actually made a contribution to the sport I will apologise. 

I have made no worthwhile contribution to sailing, other than to participate and support boating industry buying equipment etc.

I really dont know the answer because the mindset of the type committees seem to attract dont have the ability to see the problem.. only frown and ban things.

Not my experience, though some challenges balancing interests of disparate groups ... cruisers, dinghy, social.  Perhaps you need to consider a different club if it makes you so angry?

'Perhaps you need to consider a different club if it makes you so angry?'

I'm not angry, just disappointment at the shortsighted view of the majority of people that committees seem to attract.

Your 'leave if you dont like it' is the perfect example of why many sailing clubs struggle to retain members and are ultimately failing.

I can't say that bears any resemblance to any of the clubs I've been a member of, or the two I've been on the committee of for most of the last decade. My experience is of members keen to sail and make the club and it's program a success, and realising that the ones who can make that work are the members themselves.


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Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59

Another club had two committee members who liked quoting rules. They also spent many hours working for the club. If they tell me to observe a rule twice a year, and I get their services on the start boat, cleaning the boat ramp and servicing the rescue boat, it seems to be a reasonable exchange.

Exactly ... though I find it incredibly annoying that there are some who have taken a huge amount from the sport, who are not prepared to redress the balance when they have the opportunity.

Seriously, if you cannot raise a Committee from the active sailing membership, you have to question the viability of the sailing aspect of a club.

I find I can cope with a 2 or 3 year stint on sailing or management committee and have been Rear commodore sailing at our club which meant going to both evenings. Frankly on the sailing side I get sick of the club racing/ existing members being ignored and the whole talk being about the next training event or what the club should be doing for the people who have done level 1 and 2.

The good news is the club since we moved into our temp club house is thriving with lots of new faces experienced and novice. We got back to running events again with 2 excellent open meetings despite very low wind forecasts which were wrong.

Will be doing my 2nd year next year with the Phantom Nationals to organise so after that I imagine will be time to remove myself from committee before I run into the hills with the screaming abjabs

So rather than sl*gging them off, join them.  Don’t just contribute ideas, put put in the hard yards to make the ideas reality. 

Some one has to fix the showers, or at call a plumber and let them in, someone has to refuel the RIBs, someone has to stock the bar, someone has to create the racing calendar, someone has to renew the lease, arrange the insurance, coordinate training, collect subs, return key deposits, organise open meetings etc.  These are mundane, time consuming and necessary jobs that do not bestow power -the average committee member is not a megalomaniac, they are just trying to help out.  Then somone comes along with a “good” idea that they expect someone else to implement and call them old farts when they don’t.   

Having been a member at several clubs now and having been on committees at one and being left very disappointed by my time on it despite creating some positive outcomes in multiple areas of club life, i am reticent to go back to volunteering my time again directly.  Indirectly however i do what i can for the two clubs i'm currently a member of, providing images/video, duties etc.  

Perhaps what is needed if your committee is going back to how it was 7 years ago is to repeat your past success by getting a new com together but when there changing the format of how a committee is elected and the powers they hold to something that aligns with more current thinking.  The "old farts" that like rules are so entrenched in it after however many years that they cant change, its not wrong but why not find a work around, more pulling together and time spent working on it.  By the time you go on a committee the club isn't for you its for the next generation, so why not help the oldies remember that and guide them by providing some assistance to their role, be their PA for a season maybe?

Fine, but you've told us that when alternative people stood they got elected, but then got bored. You can't blame the people on the committee if you don't like how they run the club but they're the only ones prepared to do it.

Perhaps the issue is not the older members, but the more active sailing ones not being prepared to take on the work of running what they want themselves.

I think you're probably in the wrong sport and definitely the wrong club. So your committee are all wrong and you are in the right ?    Life tends to be a bit more complex than that. I'm a businessman myself so I recognise some of the meetings for the sake of meetings culture you mention, but to sl*g off your entire committee on a public forum is crass of you. 

So come back when you've made a contribution and you may get listened to a bit more. sl*gging off those folk who run our clubs without getting involved yourself is a quick route to being ignored.  Which is what I suspect the old farts in your club are wisely doing. 

So you lose the argument and start trolling..   Well done, your club must be so proud of you.

I think that most club members and committee members I've met have tended to be quite reasonable and pleasant people, and in 40 years of active sailing I can think of only a couple of real unpleasant personal interactions. 

The point about committees attracting ex public sector types can be a bit true, though I'd say that those folk from a background of larger, more complex organisations seem to work well on committees as a bit of a generalisation. Where I've seen conflict more often than not its been someone new to the sport and the club from a sole trader or small business background.  I guess they are used to being the boss in their day job and react poorly when finding that a committee of ex doctors, town planners, management consultants etc (which was a pretty typical mix on my club committee) isn't hanging on their every word. 

Similarly, sole traders don't seem to understand the difference between, say, a charity or a CASC as opposed to a small business in terms of the constitutional obligations on it. Now the likes of Elzorillo would probably think that's all claptrap and rules for the sake of it, he may have a different view if he's ever a trustee and has personal liability in the event of an incident at his club.

Most committees I've seen have only wanted to look out for the interests of the membership of the club as a whole. This includes racers, trainers and trainees, recreational sailors, occasional sailors, social members, and group members. We used to run periodic surveys and the like at my club, as the duty of the committee is to listen to all members not just the shouty handful. 

This is the primary reason why I have personally never wanted to be on a committee... I certainly wouldn’t want to be a director of a sailing club when / if it declares insolvency through essentially no fault of my own and a case of market forces.  It would have too much potential impact on myself and those closest to me- certainly for now anyway when there are dependents to feed.  I wonder what liability or indemnity cover there is for sailing club officers and the depth of such cover.... someone has to do it after all, I do accept that.  

I’d also echo that I think committee members are getting a rough ride on this thread.... most I have known are not without desire to make changes, improvements and never really fail at listening to the various needs of the members.  They are also generally fairly smart people in their day jobs, and I do admire the time and dedication that each of them give... frankly I don’t know how they find it as they are certainly not all ex-civil service emptynesters with a napoleon complex and a great excuse for wife-avoidance.  They have families, jobs, holidays and other interests too.... good time management and organisational skills then.... exactly what most clubs need I’d have thought.

Where they struggle is herding the cats of the various different partisan groups within the membership - each echo chamber often in conflict with another as to some basic fundamentals - e.g. what is the club supposed to be about?  Who are they trying to attract?  So despite good intention to make positive changes and try new things,  I can totally understand why maintaining the status quo is an easier option for any committee member, even if this by default than design.  

we have a full training programme for members and offer RYA level 1 &2 to outsiders who with luck will join club, however apart from the 70's and 80's club has never had more than about 35 active members, most races average 12 boats, handicap, though we have enough Lasers and Comets to run Class racing of either.

I personally think my club should go back to its roots and un-affiliate from RYA, have no committee whatsoever, we are decades long squatters in our building, when a letter needs reading whoever is there will deal with it, if necessary pass it to everyone to have a look, we are only group in our Cathedral sized building that actually pays electric bill, each group has its own meters for their rooms and offices.

Deniability, when anything or anyone requests something, say I am not on the committee sorry you need to speak to someone in charge, everyone takes same stance.

Send all RYA boats back, they soak up so much time in repairs they are actually a nuisance, only boats needed are rescue boats (which are our own) and members own.

We pay no rent or rates, only bills are electric, gas is from bottles, petrol from fuel station, all other expenditure would be met as and when, no subs.