Bilge pump.
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13001
Printed Date: 03 Jul 25 at 5:19pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bilge pump.
Posted By: 423zero
Subject: Bilge pump.
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 10:15am
| Following a capsize yesterday racing a GP14 and the inevitable bathtub that follows, I thought what a good idea a bilge pump would be, anyone tried this and are they class legal ? |
Replies:
Posted By: Wee Man
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 2:27pm
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Are you thinking electric or manual? Electric would involve heavy batteries switches and corrosion. Bucket and a scared crew is still quicker I'd have thought. ------------- Nacra Infusion F18 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 3:11pm
| probably a manual one, less weight and less to go wrong, just need to find out if you can use one in a race. |
Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 3:49pm
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Fastest method of bailing out a dinghy is a bucket and frightened crew! Face the stern of the dinghy, feet apart, and scoop the water over the transom (or stern deck). I reckoned that each scoop took 1-2 seconds, or 30 gallons per minute. You only need to remove sufficient water to prevent submarining - then pop the self bailers down and sail fast.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 4:42pm
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I've used boats with bilge pumps. They seem to work, but stuff gets tangled round them quite easily. I'd probably use one if long distance dinghy cruising. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 4:49pm
| I can't imagine any practical bilge pump being fast enough to warrant the clutter of fitting it. When I started at my first club which was open sea all the Wayfarers always carried heavy duty builders buckets, seem to do the job. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 5:13pm
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A bilge pump won't be as fast as a bucket when the bat is completely swamped, but it would be awfully handy for the interim period where the boat is sailable, but has too much water in for self bailers to work, especially if you could operate the bilge pump when sat out.
And because they were expensive, advantageous, but inessential kit in the days when cost of ownership was a much bigger thing that it typically is now. most classes prohibited them. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 5:52pm
| Small electric pump and removable rechargable battery (drill size) plus a bailer sounds like a good combination. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 6:03pm
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I'd see it as an aid to removing water dumped into the boat whilst upright than for post capsize water removal. 2 big buckets, as has been said, for that. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 7:45pm
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Where would you put big bucket ? Have visions of putting foot in it
 Hand bailer seems best option, would still cost you race, a Gp with air bags holds a substantial amount of water coming up from a capsize. |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 25 Feb 18 at 8:48pm
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I like the idea of using a drill and pump, wouldn't weigh much. I've got a single action lift pump on the club wayfarer, tends to get blocked easily by leaves so pump would need a good strum box ------------- Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74. |
Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 26 Feb 18 at 8:56am
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I second (or third, or fourth) angry crew with a bailer or bucket can shift way more water than any bilge pump ever will, its not like there isn't much room in a GP (under the stern deck). As long as it is tied to something where it cant move around and get under you feet it should be fine. Another option is more bigger air ags. Our old GP, we had to big pillow bags under the stern deck and had bigger bags under the seats (it had a bow bulkhead). The problem with a GP (Ents are the same) when full swamped they tend to sit very low at the stern, sometime with the transom submerged (which obviously doesn't aid bailing). You will often have water pouring in through the centreboard case at this point to. The extra air bags at the stern counters this by making the back of the oat more buoyant. You also bring up less water when you recover.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Feb 18 at 1:26pm
| This huge builders bucket got all the hallmarks of a decent variety show. |
Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 26 Feb 18 at 6:20pm
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Ballpark: taking a cockpit of 3m x 1m x 0.3m deep gives 900kg of water. Whale's largest bilge pump can move 189 L/min, so that's nearly 5 minutes to empty the cockpit. Water is heavy stuff. While it's doing that, it's drawing 18A at 12V. So that's 18AHrs. A large power tool battery is 3Ahr, so you would probably need at least 7, what with pulling all that current. And that means that your batteries are dead and can't pump any more. And that current is against zero head. Actually pumping the water up and out would pull more. A lead acid battery of nominal 85AH capacity - so about 40ish available, unless you want to kill it - would give you 2 and a bit capsizes worth of pump time. But that battery weighs 25kg. And you're still pumping for 5 mins a time. Electric bilge pumps are bad for large amounts of water. If you want to move the water fast, you want a petrol powered trash pump. Honda's smallest will pump 710 lt/min. Weighs 47kg dry, though... Better to stick with a bailer/bucket, I think. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Feb 18 at 7:00pm
| I suppose you could have a wind driven one running all the time, mind could be dangerous if you fell on it, no, stick with a bailer and a bilge pump to get the last dregs. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 26 Feb 18 at 7:39pm
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In the firefly, we have 2x 2 gallon buckets, a bailer and a sponge. Does the job. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Feb 18 at 8:31pm
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where do you put buckets ? Had some brilliant days sailing in a Firefly, can't say I noticed similar issues with Firefly that you get with Enterprise and GP14.
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Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 26 Feb 18 at 9:47pm
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In the firefly I used to keep the bucket between the mast and the bow bag. Remember that this was back when the mast was keel stepped, rotated, and kept the 450lb buoyancy bag in place. The bucket was useful to keep the hand bailer, sponge and sweater as well. The firefly would recover from a capsize full of water (above the centreboard case top). By moving to the stern, the bow bag could lift the bow and help the water drain to the stern. The sidedecks would be awash, so getting large quantities of water out of the hull was a priority... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26 Feb 18 at 10:08pm
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http://www.wilko.com/mops-buckets/wilko-collapsible-bucket/invt/0435934?nst=0&gclid=CjwKCAiA_c7UBRAjEiwApCZi8VmdCt9aL0B4jFTwiMdNMmn2tLQo6rG78iC_-mcO1ykkufIIBYo7cRoCcyEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds" rel="nofollow - A collapsible bucket!
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 27 Feb 18 at 7:12am
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Nice one , going to get one of these,
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Posted By: boatshed
Date Posted: 27 Feb 18 at 9:35am
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I noticed that the 8 person rowing boats used in the Boat Race were running electric bilge pumps. Now, I simply wouldn't bother with a non self-draining boat. ------------- Steve |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 27 Feb 18 at 10:15am
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The latest GP is self draining http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photos/speedsails/yandy45933.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photos/speedsails/yandy45933.jpg ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 27 Feb 18 at 11:23am
Wrong, you have suddenly gone from it taking 5 minutes to empty the boat to an hour. 18A divided by 12 would give you the battery usage per capsize. Still, not the right solution for a dinghy. On the sportsboat I race on we have recently fitted two Lithium batteries that weigh about as much as a drill battery, they are 5Ah each, one runs the instruments for a day and the other is dedicated to bilge pumps. The bilge pump battery will probably have a pretty hard life but we have calculated that it will pump a total of 3000 litres of water before it flattens the battery!
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Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 27 Feb 18 at 11:48am
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I have an automatic bilge pump on my Devon Yawl. It's a small one - rated at around 40l/min. Very useful for when it's choppy, keeping the water in the bilges under control. For serious knock downs there are 2 buckets and 2 sets of arms. The lithium golf cart battery also runs the depth sounder and weighing in at just under 1kg it's far too big - I only charge it once a year. ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 27 Feb 18 at 5:30pm
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Well the good news is that GP14 class allow pumps. Collapsible bucket from Wilco and pump.
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