Anyone With Some Input
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1299
Printed Date: 12 Jul 25 at 6:39pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Anyone With Some Input
Posted By: Chris Noble
Subject: Anyone With Some Input
Date Posted: 14 Dec 05 at 10:52pm
Not quite dinghy development, but pretty close, my newest toy, just finished it the other night, some minor hicups in the design needing refining, i need to make a sail with a tighter leech and add some weight to the extensions, but other than that she went a treat, we timed it over a measured distance and got 18 km/h on the first outing so far so good. Once ive refined it ill send the plans to anyone interested, it hasnt cost much to make at all.



pictures are a bit off quality as they are from my fone, any one with any input to the design please feel free to comment. Some research online says that designs very similar to this on which it is based roughyl can acheive 40 km/h 
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Replies:
Posted By: Bumble
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 6:20am
That is very cool...... I think I want one. I can just point out the obvious really - just like your moth, the only thing stopping it going at light speed is drag with the ground, and drag with the air.
I suspect the air resistance is the greater factor by a long way, but much of it can't be solved. I think the rig should be as high aspect as the materials will allow, and you mentioned poor leech tension. Consider a selfvanging wishbone configuration which should save weight considerably.
It looks like you can easily lower the CofE of the rig, and as speed increses, I suppose more rake will be benifitial.
I can't see the materials, but if your rear axil (it loos like) is a metal which can flex, you will need to 'toe in' the rear wheels to reduce drag.
I don't know... like I said, cool toy.
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Posted By: Philsy
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 8:52am
Looks fun - I want one!
Hard to tell from the photo, but the wheels look quite small in diameter,
which may cause a problem on uneven tarmac.
Also, you need to ensure the front wheel stays on the ground to keep
control - what's it like to steer?
Phil
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Posted By: Skiffe
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 10:51am
Its a bit hard to tell how its built, but its look cool. When you get around to it I'd love a set of plans.
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Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 11:12am
We did this a while ago and called the class the 1DL. We've all still got radio controlled landyachts down in the Southampton area. Here's a picture of us racing at Weymouth in 2002.

We've got all the stuff to build a load more of these and get the circuit going again in 2006. We had 20 out at the nationals in 2000 and it is such a laugh. We regularly clocked them over 30mph sustained speed (GPS).
To see more of the events we ran go to:
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/classes/?s=42&c=124 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/classes/?s=42&c=124
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Posted By: Philsy
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 11:14am
I'd be up for this!
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Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Mark Jardine
We did this a while ago and called the class the 1DL. We've all still got radio controlled landyachts down in the Southampton area. Here's a picture of us racing at Weymouth in 2002.

We've got all the stuff to build a load more of these and get the circuit going again in 2006. We had 20 out at the nationals in 2000 and it is such a laugh. We regularly clocked them over 30mph sustained speed (GPS).
To see more of the events we ran go to:
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/classes/?s=42&c=124 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/classes/?s=42&c=124
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Is it available as a kit?
Rick
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Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 11:19am
Here's a picture of us racing at Poole:

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Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 11:23am
I'm sure it could be - I've got around 10 half-built landyachts at the moment without the rig. The rules we made up had a one-design hull but the rig was open to design as long as the whole landyacht fitted inside a 1.5 m hight by 1 m long by .75 m wide box with the main sheeted fully on. We made a jig for producing the hulls so they were all the same and could mass produce them.
We could knock them up for around £250 quid with 44.1 Mhz RC gear, high speed and strength mainsheet serve (the expensive part) and carbon spars and back axle.
I've been waiting until I built my new garage / workshop until completing them. It would be great if the forum revived this class as it was such fun at the time!
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Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 12:09pm
I have wanted to build something like this on and off for the last few
years... even getting as far as building a spaceframe and mould for the
shell at one point (now sat in my garage looking pretty sorry for
itself)
Id be really interested in a revival... I see there used to be a
1dl.co.uk which is now offline. If you still have a copy of it
somewhere id be happy to host it on my webspace if people are
interested?
How much would you be willing to sell the unfinished yachts for? with or without the RC gear/spars etc?
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Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 12:36pm
Anyone else noticed the one with the pink luff is stuck on the mark (cone) ...
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Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by Guest#260
Anyone else noticed the one with the pink luff is stuck on the mark (cone) ... |
I was hoping someone would notice that! It was actually Ben Vines (GBR-999) who misjudged his run-up to the start line (between the two cones). One of the hardest thing when racing is judging perspective when going at speed since you are looking at the racing from off the course. The best thing (for consistency) is to allow lots of room for roundings and when avoiding another landyacht.
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Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 1:00pm
Looks like the nearest yellow one is gonna get yelled at for barging as well (I'm assuming the yellow cone is the pin end).
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Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 5:30pm
I've been thinking about making one too even after seeing a pic of one in the photo thread on here. I have some spare radio gear with tiny servos so I guess it would be pretty cheap.
I'd love to see any plans that are around before I go and re-invent the wheel designing/making one...
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Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 15 Dec 05 at 10:21pm
mine cost a lot less than that, and the following refinments are being made as we speak, new mainsail made from mylar (with graphics!!! ) the wheels are actually inline skate wheels ias i felt given the proposed speeds that plastic on metal bearings would melt, so bearings were needed, however on a wet surface these do not grip enough so new wheels that are also bigger are being sourced. The steering is impecable, i was always concerned that it would need tweaking but it surprisingly doesnt! The aft axel is two concentric aluminium extrusions bonded and is super light but with less flex than a carbon axel which is why i chose it not only as its cheaper but also has some weight which is a big must in that area. With regards to the wishbone idea, i ruled that out as the rig is stayed and actually has a goosneck. The goosneck arrangement is also the kicker, its the same system used on the top end rc yachts if i change the mast then i may go for a gnav, but at present the kicker is bonded to the mast, the mast is also an alloy tube which has the bend characteristics believe it or not. The rig can have differnet tensions put on it for different winds (yes a bit of thought was put in after all) but heres the good bit, the rig tension is adjusted by just ONE screw K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid!) im going to take it to the strathclyde loch xmas regatta this weekend for sum post race fun and input.im happy with the mast position as it is and the hull length is fine. Im considering carbon spars but the sail refinements are what is limiting the speeds at the moment i beleive, another thought was to add a jib aswell, very high aspect, just to take a few more degrees upwind. So far it has been good fun just designing the rig and what not and playing around with it.
Here is myt big question, would anyone be interested in creating an unoficial development class for this, just for like post race day laughs, aswell as some actual rc events, but just to see who could come up with what, similar rules to the dinghy dev. classes, any interest?
more input greatly appreciated
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Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 16 Dec 05 at 12:57pm
As I said in my post on the other page Id be very interested in the
1DL... The only thing which puts me off slightly is the fact that the
one design aspect puts the cost up and all my spare cash is heading
towards the cherub at the moment.
A Dev class on the other hand... now thats more my kinda thing 
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Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 18 Dec 05 at 6:48am
new main sail built, ill try and get some photos up as soon as i can, im still looking for bigger wheels. Going to hopefully get some testing done on the sail after the regatta today but if not then its the last week of term so i shant be missed too much.
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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 18 Dec 05 at 7:11pm
Do you guys race under 'Land Yachting' rules or 'Sailing'? The
landyachting I have done has a few different rules like no overtaking in
the conened turning zones e.t.c
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Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 21 Dec 05 at 9:46am
For those of you interested, ive worked out to have cost around £100 so far to build the yacht including RC kit (and that does include a high torque servo!) The special servo is by ratio the most expensive part (£15) but you can get a pack that comes with the remote, the receiver and 2 normal servos (use 1 for the steering and the other is a spare) for £40 its 27Hz i think, it works perfectly well, although for racing them it may be worth installing the slightly more expensive 40Hz kit as you have more channels available sosignals dont get crossed! (could be amusing tho) The original sail was made from two skins of (believe it or not) transparent duck tape, stuck adhesive on adhesive side. Which seemed to work well as the battens could be put in the laminate, but ive now sourced a far superior material which i will test as soon as there is some damn wind! The sail shape is acheived with a home made sail block which allows you to get the draft of the sail aswell as the leech curve correct when made using panels, you wont get the same power from a one peice cut! its worth the extra effort. Im going to change the kicker to a gnav today and lower the centre of effort. I am still trying to source better wheels however, can anyone help??? Still playing with the idea of a high aspect jib, but better to get the main right first!!!
More photos coming soon (better quality this time!)
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Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 30 Dec 05 at 4:00pm
i have a thought regarding your lack of wheels. have you considered using wheels from a construction kit such as k nex. it is just a thought and i dont know if they'd fit your specification but they would certainly be cheap however if you realy can get it to 30km/h then k nex, being plastic, would probably melt. another thing you could try if it gets realy desperate, dismantle a block and use the bit you put the rope round as a wheel. or perhaps you could shave back a ball bearing block so a to leave a bit of the bit the rope goes round sticking out. the ball bearings would certainly reduce friction. when you do finish the yacht i would love a set of plans and would certainly be interested in making it into a development class.
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Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 30 Dec 05 at 4:30pm
the wheels in use at the moment are ball bearing roller blade wheels
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Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 30 Dec 05 at 5:02pm
ok. it was just a thought about the k nex or old blocks. goood luck with finding some better ones and tell me when you get it finished.
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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 30 Dec 05 at 8:05pm
if you go here you can get RC landyachts off the shelf and I dare say some
higher spec wheels e.t.c:
http://www.shopinfo.trident-uk.com/models/tridentstealth2.ht m
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Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 31 Dec 05 at 8:10am
those wheels arent actually better, ive seen them and dismissed them, as they are just the soft rubber aircraft tyres with no bearing within them...
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