Enterprise age?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12980
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 1:27am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Enterprise age?
Posted By: Keifer1972
Subject: Enterprise age?
Date Posted: 02 Feb 18 at 4:12pm
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Hi everyone, i have just bought a Enterprise dinghy made of GRP, can i find out its sge from the numbets on the sail or is there a another way? The only numbers on the sail are E4 in large black print but also im a lower corner is C18105 written in permanant marker, any ideas anybody?
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Replies:
Posted By: Eisvogel
Date Posted: 02 Feb 18 at 4:14pm
It should also be carved on the transom, I think. The sails might not originally belong to the boat.
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Enterprise 20361 (Eisvogel), Laser 102727 (Halcyon), Laser 121986
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 02 Feb 18 at 4:48pm
The current rules have this to say :-
"The sail number shall be carved in figures not less than 19 mm high in the transom
or may be in the upper face of the aft thwart on moulded and composite boats.
A production serial number shall be engraved on a plate permanently fastened to the inner
face of the transom of all boats with moulded hulls." Not sure how much of that applies to older GRP boats, the number on the makers plate may or may not correspond to the sail number (most likely does on older boats though) but the sail number, if the boat was registered, should be on the hull somewhere. HTH
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 02 Feb 18 at 5:23pm
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The "C" number is the measurement certificate number, boat can't be E4, all early boats were wood, Hull number is burnt into thwart.
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Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 02 Feb 18 at 5:27pm
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The Mk2 plastic boats, which had wooden thwarts and wooden deck knees, had the sail number carved in the rear thwart. I'm pretty certain the Holt / Speed FRP boats were the same. Can't recall where they were in the Mk1 plastic boats and left the class before the new fangled Rondar Mk 3s (and dangly poles for that matter) came into existence.
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Posted By: Eisvogel
Date Posted: 03 Feb 18 at 8:15pm
If you contact the Enterprise Association, they might be able to tell from the certificate number.
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Enterprise 20361 (Eisvogel), Laser 102727 (Halcyon), Laser 121986
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 03 Feb 18 at 9:05pm
If that certificate belongs to the boat....... But it's definitely worth contacting them, when I had an Ent they were extremely helpful.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 04 Feb 18 at 5:41pm
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Reasonably sure that number is 1975. Worth checking at the class assoc though. Of course if that number is on the sail it probably does not relate to the hull.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 Feb 18 at 6:18pm
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What year was first plastic boat made, can't be earlier. E1 and E2, were the first and second Enterprises built and were the two boats that sailed across the channel in the dead of night.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 Feb 18 at 6:24pm
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http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/187239/Brief-history-of-the-Enterprise-Class
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 Feb 18 at 6:45pm
If you can how about posting a couple of pics of the interior, if not, are there buoyancy tanks or bags, bow tank, transom flaps etc. That should get you a bit closer if you can't find a proper sail number.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 05 Feb 18 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by transient
Reasonably sure that number is 1975. Worth checking at the class assoc though. Of course if that number is on the sail it probably does not relate to the hull. |
Another vote for 1975. (For the sail number anyway..)
If I can remember correctly I'm pretty sure a couple of guys at my club when I joined in 1975 had just built new Ents, and the sail numbers were 182xx. |
Posted By: SUGmeister
Date Posted: 05 Feb 18 at 6:14pm
The original 404s were about 1970/71 and became glass Ents c. 12500
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Simon SUGmeister
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 05 Feb 18 at 8:50pm
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At my first Sailing club, we had Ents ranging from 3433 (home build, but fast) up to 17000's. IIRC, the Holt grps were about 14000 sail numbers. Certainly not popular in the early days. Remember that the class started in the late 50's or early 60's and were designed for wood construction and home build...
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 05 Feb 18 at 9:31pm
My old Enterprise, 50** was built in 1960 and measured in 1961 (I probably still have the original certificate which the EA were kind enough to send me when I first joined). E1 and E2 were sailed across the Channel in Jan 1956 as a publicity stunt (I was 2 yrs and 10 months old so forgive me if my memory is a bit vague ;) ) My dad bought 14** and, a year or two later his best mate bought 50** which he gave me in the early '90s after he had given up sailing. I taught my kids to sail in her (with a firefly mainsail and half board) and, some years ago, gave her in turn to a mate who repaired the damage caused by many years in the open and used her for the occasional [potter up and down the Rochdale canal with a vintage SeaBee on the back as rig loads would have seen her off by then.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 05 Feb 18 at 10:38pm
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I have E12506 in fibreglass. Still gets sailed for fun.
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 05 Feb 18 at 11:16pm
If I had had the means to keep her dry I'm sure I'd still be sailing 50**........ I fully expect to have another Ent before I eventually hang up my wetsuits......
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: RichC69
Date Posted: 02 Apr 19 at 9:55am
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I appreciate this post is over a year old, but I too am trying to age an old Enterprise / possibly a 404 that my son and I have recently bought. It has a makers plate on the transom that has a hull serial number of 1508 / 9. The rear thwart has 16174 carved into it and one set of sails has number to match this number. I have been told on another forum that 1508 is too old a number to be a GRP Enterprise, hence the query regarding it being a 404. If anyone can shed any light on the age / history of it, I'd be interested to hear from you. When I'm next at the club I will take a photo of the makers plaque.
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Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 02 Apr 19 at 10:02am
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As far as I know, the Ent and 404 are entirely different shapes, with the Ent being a double chine hull & the 404 a round bilge with an almost vertical stem. Someone told me (over 15 years ago so memory might be flawed) that the 404 was a redecked Lark made by Parkers (the original lark builder and also known for 5o5's back in the day).
From t'interweb: The 404 was an attempt by Mike Lawton of Parker to win the trials for a new youth boat in the mid-80s. It was a shocker, as to make it self-draining cockpit, the cockpit was very shallow and the crew had to crawl across. Also, given that the ideal boat to learn to trapeze off is an easily driven, stable hull, then the Lark isn't the place to start. No surprises that the 405 won the trials (and was then bought by Hobie) and the 404 was more or less still-born.
Edit: from the same forum thread "... prior to the 404 ... there was a 404 made by Holt which was a GRP Enterprise at a time when the Enterprise Association were not interested in such hi-tech developments. That boat was so successful that it did then become the GRP Ent!"
So what differentiates an Ent & a Holt 404? Is it just the construction materials?
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Nick
D-Zero 316
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Posted By: SUGmeister
Date Posted: 02 Apr 19 at 10:52am
Originally posted by Noah
Edit: from the same forum thread "... prior to the 404 ... there was a 404 made by Holt which was a GRP Enterprise at a time when the Enterprise Association were not interested in such hi-tech developments. That boat was so successful that it did then become the GRP Ent!"
So what differentiates an Ent & a Holt 404? Is it just the construction materials? |
Going back in time I recall the Holt 404 was the GRP version of the Ent before it was approved to be an Enterprise, c1970 I think. Possible issues because by then the IYRU recognised the Ent as an International Class. Certainly I remember seeing photos of the 404 version competing with Enterprises in the Endeavour Trophy in Y&Y
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Simon SUGmeister
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 02 Apr 19 at 12:07pm
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The 16xxx number puts it in early 1970's, other number is a build number.
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 02 Apr 19 at 5:25pm
I think I've commented on this question on FB, saying much the same thing. I'm assuming #RichC69 has not had any joy from the Enterprise CA and is casting further afield?
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by RichC69
I appreciate this post is over a year old, but I too am trying to age an old Enterprise / possibly a 404 that my son and I have recently bought. It has a makers plate on the transom that has a hull serial number of 1508 / 9. The rear thwart has 16174 carved into it and one set of sails has number to match this number. I have been told on another forum that 1508 is too old a number to be a GRP Enterprise, hence the query regarding it being a 404. If anyone can shed any light on the age / history of it, I'd be interested to hear from you. When I'm next at the club I will take a photo of the makers plaque. |
My first boat was Ent 16168 - pretty sure it was built in '72/73
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