Including Steve dropping his trousers...

In short: keep your legs straight, otherwise you will end up with knee pain, and you won't hike as efficiently.

if you drag your bum in a Blaze then you have freakishly long legs... Some boats it works in (i.e those with enough freeboard).

I wonder if my use of the term 'drop hiking' is misleading, suggesting the position Star crews adopt (with the associated hiking harness)? For clarity, I was referring to the method Paul Elvstrom developed in the Finn (highish freeboard and narrow side decks).  https://www.stfyc.com/images/dynamic/getImage.gif?ID=100003698" rel="nofollow - https://www.stfyc.com/images/dynamic/getImage.gif?ID=100003698

This is not Paul Elvstrom  

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20992587_10212568051569074_7692604824399095353_n.jpg?oh=83b5c2723100f06c97e95f389b90f674&oe=5A4BB117" rel="nofollow - https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20992587_10212568051569074_7692604824399095353_n.jpg?oh=83b5c2723100f06c97e95f389b90f674&oe=5A4BB117

If I was not racing and had a Blaze I'd extend the racks so that I could sit in the normal hiking position and not strain my knees and so enjoy my sailing more. I suppose if you were doing handicap racing you could negotiate a slightly lower PY. The basic idea would be to modify the boat and not the sailors body.

The Blaze is pretty comfy to hike to be fair. Just a bit of padding needed at the front edge if you want to hang forwards off it.

All Blazes race with the racks at max extension and the old adage of "he who hikes hardest goes fastest" is still true. Admittedly an extra few inches of effort makes less difference than it does on a Laser but the difference is still significant. And negotiating a diffident handicap for 'lazy b@5tards'!!!!! 

As jeffers says Blaze is a pretty comfortable boat to hike......

I have recently started sailing 300's and find the drop posture works well, no back or knee pain and seems more effective than going straight. I have to change to straight half way up the beat to relieve whatever muscle it is that keeps the toes hooked up, when I go straight I can feel my back loading up so I keep it to a minimum.

I also drop a bit in the 200

I am a short legged 5'6"

Oh Ye that is averse to 300's, 200's, hiking and most things relating to our sport.

I am wondering if you would benefit from an alternative pastime.

Philately?

Way back when I was sailing an Oppie sitting on the side was prohibited, you had to sit on the floor of the boat.......

That is: less sail area to beam (Blaze Fire & full racks) , lower aspect rigs and shorter dagger boards.

Of course there would be performance penalties but apart from iGRF I suspect most people here understand that you cannot bend the laws of physics to suit your perfect pattern. Last come last any dinghy will be a product of many compromises.  

 

That is also not hiking.... 

Whilst sitting on side of boat, buttocks must not un-perch, head must not go lower than 45 dgrees from vertical.

Call it the perching rule.

As the Phantoms say you need to Launch the Paunch to go fast in any wind. If you have no paunch

tough.

Originally posted by iGRF   So I know you really want to answer my questions. 1) How do you manage to climb up the side of a 300 during a tack, do you have steps? A ladder? 2) This facial expression, obviously de rigeur in the 300 class, do you practise in the mirror at night to perfect it?

In answer:

1) Scooby Doo legs

2) I always look like that.

 Boat flat, bum off edge, looks like it to me..... and it was very comfortable (and probably barely nibbling at a F3)

And, incidentally how do these guys reconcile with Steve C's 'do not point your toes in' ascertion?

https://vrsport.tv/vr-media/international-canoe-worlds-2017-final-day/" rel="nofollow - https://vrsport.tv/vr-media/international-canoe-worlds-2017-final-day/

This has bugged me because the boat isn't flat at all. I just measured the angle using cad software that allows a picture to be imported and the boat actually has just over 6 degrees of heel. 

I think the biggest thing to remember when hiking, or not hiking, is bums in shoulders back. This is by far the best way to protect your knees. You'll probably find that half of all club sailors would get more righting moment with their arse on the side of the boat and their back laid flat to the water than the way they currently hike. Not to mention the effort they would save doing it. It also allows for quicker and more refined adjustments. 

I think the biggest thing to remember when hiking, or not hiking, is bums in shoulders back. This is by far the best way to protect your knees. You'll probably find that half of all club sailors would get more righting moment with their arse on the side of the boat and their back laid flat to the water than the way they currently hike. Not to mention the effort they would save doing it. It also allows for quicker and more refined adjustments.

-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

I had it open already... I was just interested that it was clearly not flat (but visually very close) and I wondered exactly what flat was perceived as. I didn't expect it to be as much as 6 degrees, so it was probably a worthwhile exercise seeing as it took less than 30 seconds.

But maybe you're right! 

But, yes it was interesting, I was aware it wasn't absolutely flat but would have said 5º was close enough to make little or no difference. This got me looking at the heel angles of some top Laser sailors (images of world championships) and it's pretty rare for any of them to show the boats completely flat upwind, despite that being the coaches mantra. I'll be happy with sub 6º heel angles upwind I reckon. 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=unit+dinghy&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#imgrc=H9BxFO-7B2iHFM:

You joke about the spirit level but a simple inclinometer is a very overlooked bit of kit, if only for motivation to hike harder! Also interesting is that in high end keelboats (Fast 40, TP etc) it is quite common to sail to a heel angle downwind rather than a wind angle or target speed. 

Lasers are a little different to most - the freeboard is so low that completely flat doesn't work in all sea states because the waves slap you even if you straight leg hike.  You also need a slight bit of heel for your upwind kinetics to be effective.

Slight heel + kinetics is much much faster than flat with no kinetics.

Expect that isn't true is it...

You missed the important bit 

42.3 Exceptions (a) A boat may be rolled to facilitate steering. (b) A boat’s crew may move their bodies to exaggerate the rolling that facilitates steering the boat through a tack or a gybe, provided that, just after the tack or gybe is completed, the boat’s speed is not greater than it would have been in the absence of the tack or gybe. (c) Except on a beat to windward, when surfing (rapidly accelerating down the front of a wave) or planing is possible, the boat’s crew may pull in any sail in order to initiate surfing or planing, but each sail may be pulled in only once for each wave or gust of wind. (d) When a boat is above a close-hauled course and either stationary or moving slowly, she may scull to turn to a closehauled course. (e) If a batten is inverted, the boat’s crew may pump the sail until the batten is no longer inverted. This action is not permitted if it clearly propels the boat. (f) A boat may reduce speed by repeatedly moving her helm. Part 4 OTHER REQUIREMENTS WHEN RACING 28 (g) Any means of propulsion may be used to help a person or another vessel in danger. (h) To get clear after grounding or colliding with a vessel or object, a boat may use force applied by her crew or the crew of the other vessel and any equipment other than a propulsion engine. However, the use of an engine may be permitted by rule 42.3(i). (i) Sailing instructions may, in stated circumstances, permit propulsion using an engine or any other method, provided the boat does not gain a significant advantage in the race.

You beat me to it!

Also 42.2 doesn't prohibit 'torquing'

(c) ooching: sudden forward body movement, stopped abruptly;

Fine line between that & torqueing though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wgoeKkE_K0

As far as I can see rule 42.3 doesn't allow 'torquing' when sailing upwind (very prevalent amongst L@ser sailors (along with rocking, pumping and ooching downwind). No longer does a (to paraphrase Eric T) "a chorus of 'heave' in time with the offenders rhythm" seem effective......

That is because it isn't prohibited under 42.2 as it does not propel the boat forward.... most Laser events have on the water jury judging rule 42 sailors are rarely flagged upwind a torquing doesn't propel the boat. "rocking, pumping and ooching downwind" is permitted as long as it accompanies a change in course as permitted by 42.3. Must club sailors sit still like a sack of potatoes then wonder why the are painfully slow 

That sound's like tacit acceptance in the way that pumping was for windsurfing. The WS racers argued it was too much a natural part of sailing a board to be outlawed and it was legalised, to the benefit of the young, fit (and usually big) athletes. I'm not saying dinghy racing should not be an athletic pursuit but as it moves (as windsurfing did with Formula Windsurfing) towards brute force being the main requirement for winning over tactics and finesse it becomes a less attractive sport to me.

BTW I was pretty good on a Raceboard at regional level (and did once win a Masters National Champs) particularly in the light stuff so I do get the 'exciting physicality' bit (I could pump with the best of them in a drifter) but, in Raceboards, the move to a 9.5 metre sail was a step too far for me.

I guess it was inevitable that it would happen. I started in DIV1 (Sailboard Vario and Tushingham dacron 6.3 soft sail on an ally mast and 2.7m boom) and moved through having strong and light wind 6m camber induced sails (6.0 SRS bought off John Tushingham, brilliant in the light, unmanageable above F4) on my Mistral Superlight (best board ever in the light stuff). The move to Raceboards and 7.5m sails was good and the combination of a Demon Design VG5 (I've had 4, still have the most recent) and a Mistral Equipe 2 was well on the pace and a perfect setup for the average (i.e. not super-fit or super large) sailor. I could/can pump it in 0-20 knots and hang on in 25 (but not the 30 knots that Sean Cox claims it is useable in).

I wonder if the huge advantage Steve Cockrell's '4th dimension' confers is because it is a 'legal' (?) way of rocking/pumping?

He bears away while throwing himself across the boat.........

I think the on the water juries you get at laser events, who are themselves usually IJ's or NJ's, probably have a good idea of what is and isn't allowed within the rules.  The SI's usually make this completely rock solid as there is no right to redress/protest an on the water R42 call, so if a juror thinks it's legal, it's legal, and if they think it's not legal, it's not legal.

So perhaps the people you think are cheating are actually just doing it right...?

P.S Torquing is adjusting the trim (the pitch, actually) of the hull forcefully as it goes over the crest of a wave so that it stays in smooth contact with the water rather than slamming and allows the boat to shoot down the back of the wave rather than just stopping.  It's clearly within the definition you've posted.

The problem/advantage with the SRS was the head was very full in the days when flat heads and floppy leeches were the "new-big-thing" in windsurfing sails. That gave it loads of power but little or no de-powerability as it wouldn't 'blade out'. It won me a fair number of races though