RS800 or i14?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12749
Printed Date: 05 Jul 25 at 9:34pm
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Topic: RS800 or i14?
Posted By: dohertpk
Subject: RS800 or i14?
Date Posted: 13 May 17 at 6:18pm
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Hi all, So I know this has probably being asked in the past but, nevertheless, I'd like a bit of input. I'm considering a twin-wire skiff. I know the 800 is the sensible option but I'm a bit of a sucker for overpowered, impractical boats. Just how much harder is the 14 to live with? With some lovely looking 14s on the second-hand market, you seem to get a lot more boat for your money. Are they that much harder to sail and maintain? Fleet racing isn't an issue - Ireland doesn't really do skiffs so I'd be sailing either for blasting purposes. Cheers, Peter
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Replies:
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 14 May 17 at 9:55am
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14 is a smaller boat with bigger sails, so is more demanding to sail, mind you 800 is very straightforward and to be honest dull until its quite windy. If you sail somewhere with a bit of space then you should find i14 fine. If you get a used 14 that is laid out simply as they generally are these days, they consume blocks and rope and sails etc at the same rate an rs800 would, so no harder to sail. The i14s are generally built by craftsmen whereas SMODs are moulded and assembled by guys on minimum wage. So until someone less skilled tries to change things then they are usually very robust. At the top level the hulls last for a decade no problem, of maintained. Unlike most SMODs. Whilst they are small boats, you get an awful lot of boat for your money with a used 14. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 14 May 17 at 5:53pm
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Got a feeling the 800 is only easy if coming from things like 14s. For the rest of us, it involves a steep learning curve and much swimming. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: ttc546
Date Posted: 15 May 17 at 7:35am
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Don't you already have a twin-wire skiff - 49'er ? ------------- |
Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 15 May 17 at 9:43am
| Thanks for the replies all. I have access to a 9er but it's not ours and I can't really sail it as regularly as I'd like. Daniel, is it possible to get 14s without a maze of control lines? I'm not really one for the infinitely adjustable rig and would prefer a 'plug and play' layout as much as possible. |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 15 May 17 at 11:04am
IMO don't worry about the adjustable rigging, there is nothing stopping you simply cleating that stuff in one position until you have enough hands and brain-cycles free to think about adjusting them and, at that point, you will be glad you didn't strip it all off. |
Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 15 May 17 at 12:20pm
| Cheers that's good to know. Without opening a can of worms, how does a 14 compare to the 9er in terms of performance? (I'm assuming a 14 will dust an 800 on all points of sail) |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 15 May 17 at 3:13pm
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Complexity depends on previous owners taste.
You can always take stuff off! Like getafix says you don't have to pull strings either. Nobody really adjusts anything apart from sheets cunno vang foil while racing. Tbh current double world champ doesn't even adjust cunno and vang during race apparently! Maybe if it's 2h long pow race and it drops f5 to f2 some people may adjust stuff if they have the wherewithal. Even then you'd have to be sure the string pulling would be worth losing 20 boat lengths! Apparently world champ 14 beats squad level 4 9ers windward leeward from 6 kts up to 12 or 15 kts tws, above which the extra 3ft beam of the 49er starts to win out. Not sure in light airs as foil on i14 won be as effective downspeed. |
Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 15 May 17 at 3:29pm
| Thanks so much for that. How manageable are they compared to the 49er in a blow? I can keep the 9er upright up to about 15 knots. In anything above that, my 600 skills (or lack thereof) cease to translate. I've sailed the 800 in 20 knots plus and it's far more manageable than the 600. Would the 14 sit somewhere between the 49er and 800 in terms of general brutality in breeze? |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 15 May 17 at 7:43pm
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I've only sailed a 49er once and with a top class crew.
It was before I had done much 14ing too. I've done a bit of 800ing, again before 14ing. 14 and 49er more "amplified" than 800 but in different ways. Not sailed a 600. My comparison is that the 49er is a much bigger wider boat, with only a little more sail. You can get the boat comfortable after a tack or gybe more easily as you are already 4.5ft off centre and the 14 only 3ft off centreline on a wobblier boat. So you'd think the 14 harder, but helm can pretty much go across like he would in an ent or something in the 14, Esp if crew is good. Go out on wire in a leisurely fashion. On the 49er you have to move 9ft on your feet whilst steering smoothly at pace. Plus on the 14 you have the foil to keep the bow up downwind. It's six of one and half dozen of the other, but plenty guys in 50s and some even in 60s sailing 14s, so one can take from that perhaps that you can get away without agility or athleticism if you steer right and ideally have a good / agile crew. If you do the wrong thing at the wrong time in either when windy they can rip your face off. But good practice is well known and easy to understand. |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 16 May 17 at 7:51am
never sailed an i14 with a t-foil rudder but if they make half the difference they do on N12 then it would greatly improve bear-away wipeout survival rate and also that lovely feeling when you bear away in a gust, get bow down in waves and watch the next wave rushing at you at a speed you know you're choices have come down to a) try and drop off the back, don't hit anything or b) wait for the bury, pitchpole, launch sequence, get some air and then try not to hit anything  |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 16 May 17 at 10:52am
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Yes it makes bearaway and windy downwind in general far safer, and it makes the boat 2kts faster upwind to boot.
Like any proper skiff you can't beam reach in 15kts plus though :-). |
Posted By: MattK
Date Posted: 16 May 17 at 11:15am
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As people have said it is all relative I went to a try an i14 day ran a few years back from a background of 2005 rules cherubs, and to me the increased hull stability and greater overall mass meant it felt pretty easy to handle comparatively, and the guys who had come from 49ers had the opposite feeling as the 9er although powerful is a more stable platform, but the difficulty differences were not so great that anyone there wasn't comfortably racing them that afternoon The 800 is by far the easiest to sail and it is so much less enjoyable for it, its just heavy stable and lacking in the power to overcome those issues If its not for racing get a 14 or a 49er depending on your personal preference if you get a chance to sail them both
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