RS 400 Tack Line
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12737
Printed Date: 05 Jul 25 at 9:28pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: RS 400 Tack Line
Posted By: laser193713
Subject: RS 400 Tack Line
Date Posted: 09 May 17 at 11:49am
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Having a little bit of a puzzle with my tack line on the 400. When the pole is retracted I'm pretty sure the tack line is meant to ease by 30cm or so allowing the tack to get up and into the chute. This doesn't seem to happen on my boat. Is there a knot inside the pole that sets this? If so, how do I get to it? Does anyone have a diagram of how the pole outhaul/tack line system works on the 400?
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Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 09 May 17 at 12:04pm
| The first question is whether there is something the physically stops it. Can you, on the shore, pull out a length of line sufficient to get the tack in the chute? If so its probably a friction problem rather than a misplaced knot. But suggest you ask on an RS forum too. |
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 09 May 17 at 12:10pm
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I don't think it's a friction problem, it moves an inch or two but not nearly enough to get the kite to the chute. I just don't know whether the knot is inside the pole or somehow attached to the inboard end for example. The RS forum seems pretty dead, I will ask there but normally get a good answer to most things on here!
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 09 May 17 at 12:20pm
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Assuming my boat is 'normal'.... There is a knot inside the pole. When the kite is pulled in, initially the pole tends to stay out until the knot jams against the inside of the pole end, then the pole comes in. The knot is positioned to have the kite fully in the chute and roughly 30-40cm of pole sticking out. There is a class rule about how much pole may stick out upwind IIRC, I forget the number! We have a basic 2 line system FWIW. |
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 09 May 17 at 10:21pm
| So that begs the question... how the hell do you get to that knot!? I guess I need to mouse the tack line out of the inboard end of the sprit somehow. Or is the outboard end easy to remove? Mine has a healthy wrap of tape just in from the end which could be hiding a retaining screw for the end cap...? That would be the easy outcome anyway! |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 09 May 17 at 11:38pm
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The end caps, both ends, are fixed with a screw or pop rivet. To get at the knot you have to remove on at least. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 09 May 17 at 11:50pm
| Before you do anything, check that the inboard end of the pole launch line - in the cockpit -hasn't knotted. |
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 12:38am
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sounds like the knot on the inside of the pole if your inboard end cap hasn't fallen off already you may as well drill the rivets and tape it on because it will only fall off in the near future anyway. you then attach your new tack line which is 2meteres longer than it needs to be to the outboard end and pull it through the pole and out of the cap you just took off until its nearly all the way through, now tie a figure of 8 (i also use a bobble) and pull the outboard end back out until it hits the knot, rig your kite up and stow it. keep adjusting the tack line until its the right length to get almost all the way into the chute with the pole only just sticking proud of the bow. Then chop off the excess I also leave a little more length on the tack so that i can push the pole just inside the mouth of the boat for towing
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Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 3:54pm
Surely swapping to a one string system like every other Assym class would be much easier!  ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 4:38pm
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One string systems have more friction though so if your crew is not so big/strong a two string can be easier. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 5:19pm
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i think thats debatable with the 400 as switching to 1 string means you can change to a 4mm d12 tack line rather than the old 6mm pre-stretch or what ever is being put on the new boats the tack line is still set up the same for 1 and 2 string anyway |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 5:45pm
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You are still launching the pole and pulling up the kite, considerably more effort than just raising the kit while the helm deploys and retracts the pole. I may experiment with two strings on the Spice as the kite is huge, and well worn so it's rather sticky in the chute. We've been experimenting with a smaller kite off a Topper Omega ('bout the same size as a 400) this season which is much easier but would like to big one for racing. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 6:21pm
I don't have any knots hidden inside the pole on my Musto tackling and the pole comes in fully and the kite tucks nicely into the shoot. ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 6:25pm
Something wrong with your system if there is noticeable friction in your pole launching. Suspect it maybe more to do with your kite being old and perhaps waterlogged and same for the sock ( although no sock on a 400). A good re-proof of the fabric should help alot ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 6:46pm
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Yes I've done that and not yet tried the big kite this season. I do like the simplicity (in the sense of launching and recovering rather than all the string) of the single line system but it must take additional effort to do both jobs with just one? However we don't have too much trouble launching the kite and pole but, probably due to the old kite being waterlogged, dousing it is often a trial. Can't justify a new one just yet though it is on the list....... ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 7:13pm
| On a trapeze boat I prefer one string systems, because if you've got to rush into the boat and do everything at once it had better be one string. But on a lower powered sit out boat like the 400 its often possible to get the pole out as you approach the mark, leaving you with probably two heaves less rope to get the kite up, which ought to make for a faster hoist. So on slower boats and especially inland there's a good case to consider a separate line for the pole. |
Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 7:49pm
| Doesn't the spinaker fall in the water if you pull the pole out fully before the mark? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 10 May 17 at 8:44pm
| Never happened to me on a 400 on a lake. 'tis only a baby kite and a baby pole. |
Posted By: Ardea
Date Posted: 11 May 17 at 9:12am
I've always used a one string system. A healthy stream of well intentioned abuse from the helm helped get the sticky kite up on our old cherub  I agree that with JimC on two string on trapeze boats is probably not a great idea.
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 11 May 17 at 2:23pm
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I've heard various opinions of why the one string systems don't work very well on 400's, but I think most people who actually sail 400s concede the two strings are better in reality on a 400. Yes, we know the one string system on 800s and other boats work fine. That's irrelevant. The 400 with one string pole can ocassionally throw the pole too far forwards, letting the wing wang lines fall off the inboard end. This can ruin your day. You can prevent this with another bit of string, but this can tangle apparently. It's possible people have sorted this on the very newest boats, if so I'd be pleased to hear about it. But I'd ignore random anecdotes about what works on other classes! |
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 11 May 17 at 4:07pm
| I actually quite like the twin string system. The only issue is this tack line, I'm not sure how the previous owners put up with it for so long! If I'm honest, I haven't spent too much time with my head under the foredeck, it all seems to work at the moment, which probably means I should take a look so that when it breaks I know how to put it all back together! |
Posted By: Hornet
Date Posted: 11 May 17 at 5:58pm
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You will have to tie a line to the end of the tack line and pull the tack line from the pole (you may have to cut the outboard knot off), you will also have to take the end cap off and cut the inboard knot off and then pull it from the pulley and scrap and replace the line as you won't be able to undo it.Keep the end that you cut off, push the new line through the pulley now measure where the knots were or Leave extra length after the knot and tape it to your slave line and pull back through the pole and replace your end cap Tie a figure of eight aprox where you think and try the kite. If the kite doesn't go into chute fully you need to move the outboard knot closer to the kite, if the pole doesn't retract fully move the knot closer to the pole. BTW - pulling your pole out before windward mark rounding is against class rules!
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 11 May 17 at 6:16pm
I don't see that in the class rules unless I am missing something. |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 11 May 17 at 6:24pm
1.1 The sprit shall be retracted so that it’s forward end is within 400mm of the forward most point of the hull at all times other than when the spinnaker is set or in the act of being set or recoveredSo the issue would be can you legally claim to be in the act of setting the kite while still heading upwind? ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 11 May 17 at 8:03pm
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1 boat length to the windward mark the pole goes out as you bear away the crew jumps in and pulls the kite up as long as there isn't a period of nothing happening then i would say its total justifiable
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