I think the whole pathway system needs a revamp to keep those on the pathway scheme and their parents a part of the clubs they represent.

The running theme is that sailing clubs, in my opinion, get something of a raw deal from the RYA.

You can't really replace your governing body, i just live in hope of some reform.

We run our Cadet Week which is a mix of doing the RYA stages combined with fun activities (sailing games, free sailing, bit of racing). It works pretty well and when you get a group of kids together they really drive each other on.

That would surely depend on what it did, or aimed to do? What sort of things would you see such an organisation doing - that would differ from what class associations and the RYA do now?

Too focused on Olympic pathways

System spits out non-top performing youths

No push for adult race coaching

Inconsistencies in PY system

But there are a number of big positives which a dinghy lobby group would not be able to grapple with;

National dinghy show

Regional support for clubs if they ask

Management of PYs, Rules, conduit for funding, lobbying for clubs in disputes

My impression is of an organisation with good intent that is bogged down by the diversity of waterborne activities that it tries to represent, and by the inertia of an organisation that is not driven by the markets.

From a dinghy racers perspective the make up of the RYA management committee does not suggest that there is anybody on board that is likely to improve matters;

http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/chiefexec/Web%20Documents/BOARD_PROFILES.pdf

The RYA does adult race coaching just in a different format. They arrange club race coach courses which can give the more experienced racers the ability to coach in your club. We have run a couple at Hunts and got some good people from it who are not interesting in becoming DIs.

Having a squad system would not work for most adults, they don;t have the time to commit but will happily make it for their kids.

With regards to the PY system it is based on the data they get. They cannot really have confidence in some of the numbers though so perhaps that needs to be addressed.

I was definitely an RYA sceptic until my hand was forced a little as I did a DI course. I then met our RDO and got involved. There are some good people (RYA employees) doing some great work away from RYA towers.

At our club I race an RYA National Class dinghy, where the RYA adminster the class rules, issue certificates and sail numbers, and train our measurers.  My club has benefited from a £50k Sport England grant facilitated by the RYA providing new changing rooms, we have a fleet of poly boats to train our youths, facilitated with Sport England grants.  When I go racing, I race to World Sailing rules of which the RYA are the MNA, and three of our club races use PY numbers, administered by the RYA.  A group of our youths have been sailing RS Teras as part of the South West Regional youth squad, and each March a whole load of us go to the National Dinghy Exhibition; 

My disappointment is that there remain issues where the RYA could improve, not just in delivery, but in how they communicate with the adult racing dinghy fraternity.

It wouldn't be a forum without a conspiracy theorist or two..... besides human nature means that any alternative organisation would go through all the same infancy issues that have affected dinghy racers the RYA have long since put behind them.  

Case in point-  I don't think anyone who is properly informed on how PYs are recommended actually thinks there's any collusion in the room, not anymore at least..... it's impossible, there's nigh-on zero empirical evidence in play, meaning rightly or wrongly, it's just based on statistical data alone.  

A new organisation would end up 'four legs good, two legs better'... assuming it's successful enough to survive more than a year or two of initial enthusiasm.  

So far the poll indicates that a new organisation's 'approval rating' is sub 25%.... in other words, it would be doomed before it started!!!

Anyone remember FastSail or TASA?

Being completely selfish I would say that the RYA does for me a mass of admin that I have no interest in, regulatory lobbying, competence certs for those who need them further abroad..................

Loss of funding to chase medal targets could well be a blessing in disguise. Putting the focus back on simply sailing as fulfilling exercise in it's own right and forcing more local initiatives and self reliance.

I wouldn't necessarily say that "money is the root of all evil" but it does bring it's own demons to the party. 

Truly though, is anybody out there fixated and frustrated on PY or even slightly bothered as much as a double handful of posters on a Y&Y'ing forum? 

I have never completely bought into the arguement that sailing in the Olympics is such a bad thing; any sport needs heroes to look up to, this is something that encourages youth into a sport because it is cool ... and the Olympics is definitely people can relate to, and puts sailing on a level footing with other "bigger sports".  

And the Olympics is dinghy sailing ... something that we can identify with.  The other Grand Prix events ... Vendee, Volvo and America's Cup are increasingly removed from mainstream dinghy sailing.

We recently had a talk at our club by Hannah Mills and I have no doubt that some of the youngsters who attended will have gone away inspired, or at least confirmed that their participation in an Olympic sport was cool,

I wont dwell on the whole Olympic circus and the associated ethical concerns, that is a debate for elsewhere; however it is fair to say that the RYA's Youth and Olymic pathway routes do not appear to do the mainstream sport a lot of favours, and in my opinion this is the area that the RYA could do so much more with.

I've just read the race report for a UKWA Cup event from last year and it does look healthy with a number of younger sailors racing RB, nice to see my old mate Mark Kay still has it (though I did know he was still doing well). It is a shame it doesn't filter down to local level though.....

They are doing something.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/get-inspired/39502727" rel="nofollow - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/get-inspired/39502727

So to summerise, like all things, the RYA is an ever evolving creature.  Love it or loathe it, its here to stay!

I would think kids and youths would take up a lot of RYA's organising time, not leaving much for adults.

Olympic's, flagship for RYA, probably only thing that brings sailing into the non sailing public eye.

it would all depend on engagement objective - is the aim to raise awareness per capita?  Or to increase participation?

If it's the former - then a cost per slot for a TV ad during say, Coronation Street is roughly (very roughly!!!), £50k.  Typically 7.8 million viewers per episode, but of course the metrics are different now as fair proportion watch on demand (guaranteed engagement) or via a hard disk catch up (where you can FFWD the adverts, therefore zero engagement).

If it's the latter - then £50k spent on a 12 boat trailer and 12 Aeros or 24 Neos could be put to VERY good use around the country on a tour to encourage people to actually try it.... hit the parks with big enough lakes during summer would be a great way to start.  You can't get more 'grass roots' than sailing on the Serpentine or its equivalents around the country, especially if local clubs provide some man power to support the effort.

I would suggest that any marketing return from the Olympics is far more in line with the Corrie advert, i.e. it might raise awareness, but I doubt it has much impact on actual participation, even initial trial sails.

Are you actively promoting it? Or is it happening by itself? Would be interested to hear if you have any advice on how to improve diversity!

I've got half a mind to organise something similar down here. It's a low-overhead way of proving to organisations that many of their members are narked, and it puts them on notice in a way that organisations find hard to ignore. If the presidents of (say) HISC, QMSC etc and the Solo, RS, Ent, Firefly and other classes started making a formal joint plea to the RYA surely there would be some action?

A joint plea about what exactly?  I can't see anyone with a genuinely vested interest in the UK dinghy scene actually standing up and saying 'boo!' to the Olympic programme..... there's too much shared glory at stake. 

Secondly, as the stats on this very poll show, the level of disgruntlement is actually very, very low - and it would be significantly lower if the poll were conducted via a wider medium of non-forum dwelling recreational sailors and racers.

I guess most of us assume the RYA isn't going to be perfect, it represents several groups of the wider boating community and to be honest, probably doesn't want too much engagement from it at club level anyway.  My own specific feeling is that I prefer an independent body like the RYA than a Whitehall department for the wider issues such as maintaining accessibility to water to sail on.  

So a few kids go off and follow their dreams for a few years.... making friends for life, travel around a bit and spread their horizons beyond their GCSE coursework and which Kardashian posted last on Twitter.  That's possibly at the sacrifice of finding adult club racing a bit dull upon their return.... but let's be honest, SFW, they're probably right to have other priorities in their twenties anyway and quite honestly, they've got a point- it can be dull and formulaic, I'm not entirely convinced that's the RYA's fault really!!! 

If they found it all too hard not making the grade amongst their own peer group in youth sailing, then I really wouldn't be surprised if they'd have left club racing anyway.  Frustrated with the realities that they are maybe sailing a boat with an unfavourable handicap for their local club, or that they couldn't afford the latest and greatest new 25k Moth or that actually some 'old codger' in a Merlin is still a better sailor than they'd ever be.... experience still counts!

This 'spat out the system' argument just doesn't make sense- it assumes that club sailing would have otherwise been exciting and rewarding enough to ensure a life long engagement with sailing at this level.  I just don't buy that I'm afraid.  

Where there is a viable point, is that parents give up their own sailing in order to facilitate the travelling to these events- this means that the clubs are depleted with teenagers and folks of their parents age who would otherwise be participating as more of a family activity and make the social back bone of a 'club' more complete. 

I guess this is why you get the polarisation at some clubs of young children learning the basics and empty nesters in the old man classes.... this makes them pretty soulless places to hang out for the non-sailing other half.  That said, I fail to see this aspect of club life being the RYA's fault or responsibility.

Bang on.

don't worry, no confusion.... I got that Chris    

amazing how fun the  lsit of  boat handling  exercises in the  (old) coaching handbooks can be made