Laser Vago
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12705
Printed Date: 06 Jul 25 at 11:59am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Laser Vago
Posted By: tink
Subject: Laser Vago
Date Posted: 28 Mar 17 at 8:39pm
https://www.facebook.com/groups/65984906536/permalink/10154164173136537/" rel="nofollow - Just now I am thinking of selling my RS Vision and getting a Vago. I am a little worried about structural issues with Vago though. I was on a Nielsen holiday and they had a Vago grave yard. The instructors sail that the early models had an issue with the deck cracking in the helm area but Laser changed the design. Any ideas at what sail number this mod happened, was it successful? In addition there appears to be some issues with the lower gudgeon ripping out?
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com
http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Replies:
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 11:44am
Be very wary. A club member bought a new Vago and it developed a hole in the foredeck after only a few weeks. He eventually got a replacement from the manufacturers. This was about 20+ kilos overweight and developed a crack in the floor just aft of the mainsheet block right where the helm stands. This was repaired once by manufacturers but went again in a few months and guess who refused to do any more repairs.
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Merlin Rocket 3609
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 12:22pm
The issue of weight is, I suspect, a real problem with some SMODs. They aren't routinely weighed at events nor are they measured before registration, you only have the builders quoted weight to go off. A builder of a trad class would not allow a hull that was 20 kg overweight leave his workshop (and if he did, the buyer would reject it as the weight would be written on the measurement certificate). But building poly boats light is always going to be a compromise between weight and durability. It's probably not so much of a problem with poly boats mind you as they are less likely to end up in the hands of a serious racer. GRP/FRP SMODs OTOH are a different matter, if I was buying a new one I think I would ask the dealer to weigh it before delivery and reject it if it was overweight.......
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 1:14pm
I heard similar storys regarding the reliability of the Vago having considered one myself with the alleged single handing option they write about, but seriously read this from their Wiki entry:
The Vago is renowned for fantastic performance in high winds due to the lightweight hull design and the Mylar mainsail. As a result, this boat is sailed mainly by more experienced crews than boats such as the Laser 3000.
Who writes this drivel, it's classic misrepresentation and they should be reported.
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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website
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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 2:13pm
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I believe one of the pricately owned Vagos at my local club had a similar issue with splitting. It has been repaired though and seems good.
The ones the club own have not shown any sign of this but they were new when bought.
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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 6:44pm
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Two were new when bought, the other was second hand. None have shown signs of splitting. Boats in holiday centres can be a little more prone to this sort of issue because they take a pounding from customer use, plus they spend a lot of time exposed to sunlight which weakens the plastic.
Our second hand Vago (about to be sold) has been fine. It's sail number 1240. You have already asked on the Facebook forum and I think they have given good advice.
To be honest, I have visited centres with large graveyards of almost any of the rotomoulded boats: Picos, visions, qu'bas, Fevas the lot - including Visions. Rudders have been seen to warp dramatically, floors split, transmission come apart and so on. I know the transom fitting literally dropped off our Vision, mid sail!
That is the gamble you take when buying a used rotomoulded boat; the process is nowhere near as precise and balanced as the manufacture of a grp frp or wooden boat. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
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the same, but different...
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Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 9:09pm
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I can't give you any information about the build quality, but I can tell you what it's like to sail. It's a pig, a heavy heavy pig. I don't know anyone who owns the boat privately. It seems to be used mostly by sailing clubs and schools. If you're looking for something a bit sportier than a Vision, maybe consider an RS500? Are you committed to trapezing? If not, there's always the 200 which is a great little boat with great racing on your side of the pond.
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Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 10:37pm
By all means sell your Vision but don't buy a Vago. Even if they don't fall apart (and whilst I know a few owners and my club has a few for rental, I've never seen or heard of a privately owned one failing) they are really not as nice as the competition.
Wobbly, flexy, heavy, need a howling wind to get planing and really hard to mend if you break it. The wiki entry is indeed a travesty of the truth!
The small trapeze and asymetric double hander sector is crowded with boats. Think Laser 3000, V3000, Buzz, RS500, 29er even. Some of them are getting long in the tooth, but there are good ones around at good prices.
I'll admit to bias as I have a V3000 ... but waited until the Vago was released (rotomould, heavy, wobbly, turtles in capsizes ...so no) and the RS500 arrived (it's an RS Vario with a jib basically, bit heavy, bit over canvassed to single hand so no) and tried a 29er too (too wobbly and powerful to single hand .. though I've seen it done) before making my mind up.
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Javelin 558
Contender 2574
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 10:46pm
Any reason for a poly boat rather than FRP tink?
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 11:55pm
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Most of what's been said on this thread re polyprop boats I've seen at my club. The only folk who seem to buy these beasts are newbies. The usual pattern is newbie buys said polyprop beast because they have read the unbiased ? reviews on the likes of wiki, join a club, try and sail said beast at the club and find that they sail like a pig, they then sell said pig at a substantial loss and buy what the rest of the club sail. Whats's that phrase, caveat emptor ?
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Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 30 Mar 17 at 8:35am
The Vago was pre tested at our clubs sailing school prior to launch when it had an association with laser. The feedback was not good. The snag list was long. When the discussion was had it was admitted t was too late as they had already built a significant number of hulls.
Our sailing school never bought them.
Get a 2k or a 500 depending on experience.
Better sorted. More support. More people sail them. And fixable.
Andy
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Andy Mck
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 30 Mar 17 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons
Any reason for a poly boat rather than FRP tink? |
It all goes back to why I bought the Vision. About 6/7 years ago my daughter was about 5yrs old and I wanted a family boat to get her into sailing. At the time I was developing a 14ft proa and sailing an IC so spending a lot of time in the boat shed, my wife insisted the boat had to be zero maintenance. It also had left all year on on the North York Moors, very icy in the winter. Anyway the Vision has been a total success, my daughter hooked on sailing, I have only replaced the jib furl line (and the cover, standard one couldn't take the UV) and it has spent all it's life up on the Moors. Move to the present day, I have a wooden Streaker, 12 ft sailing canoe and my daughter an Opi so still spending time in the boat shed. Still want a two handed boat for my daughter to sail together so was considering a switch to a Vago.
Anyway thanks to a the responses and I have decided to stick to the Vision and see how much two handed sailing we actually do. My current favourite is the 3000, light and I can get one for the same dollar as can sail the Vision for.
Anyway thanks again one and all.
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com
http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 30 Mar 17 at 8:49pm
There was an RS Vision in my old club.
Sailed well it was a menace on PY.
They go quite well in lightish airs. They don't capsize much. They don't break.
Moving on from there, I'd think about who/what there is to race against.
For a father/youngish daughter team, the Buzz comes to mind as a value for money menace on PY.
Mentioning no names of course!
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 30 Mar 17 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by RS400atC
There was an RS Vision in my old club.
Sailed well it was a menace on PY.
They go quite well in lightish airs. They don't capsize much. They don't break.
Moving on from there, I'd think about who/what there is to race against.
For a father/youngish daughter team, the Buzz comes to mind as a value for money menace on PY.
Mentioning no names of course!
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You are poking the Hornets Nest now, we know is posting next. Will look at the Buzz stats.
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com
http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 30 Mar 17 at 9:03pm
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That should be
We know WHO is posting next
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com
http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 30 Mar 17 at 9:43pm
how can you tell a good builder from one purely aiming at profit?
the good builders work with the class association and owners to find areas to improve without affecting existing owners significantly.
the profit builders just keep banging out new models until they run out of numbers or obscure names to call them
buy a class with some history and some hope of a future Gp14 etc
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 30 Mar 17 at 10:38pm
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L3K is a nice boat, a mate has one, we're a bit heavy for it but it's fun in a blow and more forgiving than the Spice. FRP is pretty low maintenance too so when you move on from the Vision you should still manage to remain married. A virtual beginner I know bought a L2 after a couple of years in a Swallow (of all things, horrid looking thing but it got him going) and he's doing well in it solo (without the kite) and with a novice crew so the hull form is not too tricky.
There's a lot to be said for the trad classes too though (even if they are usually a bit heavier than the modern kit). I would love a decent FRP Ent (especially a new Mk3..... ) just a pure and simple nice boat.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald
how can you tell a good builder from one purely aiming at profit?
the good builders work with the class association and owners to find areas to improve without affecting existing owners significantly.
the profit builders just keep banging out new models until they run out of numbers or obscure names to call them
buy a class with some history and some hope of a future Gp14 etc |
Interesting how many older designs are in the PY table when you sort it by returns and how many recent designs no longer get a PY. LASER SOLO LASER RADIAL RS 400 RS 200 PHANTOM SUPERNOVA STREAKER TOPPER MERLIN-ROCKET ENTERPRISE FIREBALL COMET ALBACORE GP14
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com
http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 6:20pm
Supersofa the newest in there?
Suspect that will change as the Aero takes hold, but still a poor show from the millennium babies.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by Rupert
Supersofa the newest in there?
Suspect that will change as the Aero takes hold, but still a poor show from the millennium babies. |
Supernova 1996 RS200 1995
Cant find when the 400 was launched. So the Nova is over 20 years old, hardly a new design!
What is more telling is the proportion of active boats vs boats built.
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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by Rupert
Supersofa the newest in there?
Suspect that will change as the Aero takes hold, but still a poor show from the millennium babies. |
Poor show in terms of getting returns in.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 8:44pm
Clubs get returns in, so I'd expect things to be fairly even for classes.
Jeffers, the 400 came first, so 1996 is the newest on the list. As you say, hardly new.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons
L3K is a nice boat, a mate has one, we're a bit heavy for it but it's fun in a blow and more forgiving than the Spice. FRP is pretty low maintenance too so when you move on from the Vision you should still manage to remain married. A virtual beginner I know bought a L2 after a couple of years in a Swallow (of all things, horrid looking thing but it got him going) and he's doing well in it solo (without the kite) and with a novice crew so the hull form is not too tricky.
There's a lot to be said for the trad classes too though (even if they are usually a bit heavier than the modern kit). I would love a decent FRP Ent (especially a new Mk3..... ) just a pure and simple nice boat. |
Thanks Sam your post got me thinking what I actually want. Any replacement has to be an improvement on the Vision which is back breakingly heavy and that is its only fault. I suspect I may have one of the +20kg plastic boats. 'Improvement' is a subjective word but the Vision works as a boat I can take my daughter and her friend out when they are tired after a couple of races in their boats. I can also 'cruise' single handed with the asymmetric but I find the ergonomics don't work for trapezing. This to me is a simple list of my requirements and I do feel the 3000 is the nearest but very open to ideas, next would be a 420
Vision Cost sub 2k N/A Crew weight 17-20kg ✅ Trapeze ✅ Asymmetric ✅ Loooow maintenance ✅ Weight hull sub 80kg ❌ Single handed-able ⚠️ Reefing ✅
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com
http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 10:27pm
Do you need to race with your crew?
Maybe look at Vareo, Vortex?
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 10:33pm
TBF you can sail almost anything singlehanded (I sail the Spice solo in the light stuff, even with 38M2 off wind...... not in F3+ though). The L3K seems a nice boat to single hand, even off the wire, and it was on my shortlist back in 2007 when I was buying my first dinghy in 40 years. It probably might have been the better choice rather than the Spice but, at the time I was only shopping for one boat (I now, finally, have the Blaze) so wanted something that would keep me interested for a good while, and I wasn't having to cater for very young sailors. I haven't regretted the Spice but I do, very much, like my mates L3K too. Between us maybe we have the best of nearly all worlds?
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by RS400atC
Do you need to race with your crew?
Maybe look at Vareo, Vortex?
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Yes most certainly I sail my Streaker and my daughter an Opi but as a third boat we would like to sail together.
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com
http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 31 Mar 17 at 10:53pm
Maybe I should add, I didn't want a trad/slow boat when I bought the Spice in 2007/8 but even if I had I doubt my wife would have been converted, she has sailed in the Spice once.... An L2k might have got her out a few more times but we now have a small RHIB (an old Avon Adventure 4.5 with a 50HP Johnson) that makes her (and me, on the right day) happy. I'd still like to think I'll have an nice Ent when I finally decide I'm too old for the Spice but maybe I'll need something with some ballast then........
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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