RYA Associate and Accredited Membership Fees
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12702
Printed Date: 07 Jul 25 at 1:23am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: RYA Associate and Accredited Membership Fees
Posted By: davidyacht
Subject: RYA Associate and Accredited Membership Fees
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 12:39pm
|
Having a look on the Forum today, and I noticed the banner advertising "Associate" membership of the RYA for members of Clubs and Class associations. Great, I thought, at last the RYA have cottened on to the group of sailors who object to paying full Personal membership fees, when they already sub the RYA through their club and class association affiliations. I was not expecting a large discount, maybe a fiver or a tenner, I got my wallet out in anticipation of rejoining, followed the link to see that a Single Adult Associate membership is £45, out of interest I wondered how much Full membership is ... £45, then Affiliate membership ... £45. So I put my wallet away, and can only conclude that the RYA are using sharp practices to extract money out of a disenfranchised group. I shall continue to support the RYA through my Class Association and my Club membership fees. An opportunity lost by the RYA. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Replies:
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 1:12pm
|
Posted By: IanL
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 1:46pm
|
I am sure that the RYA took advice before making this move. Don't be too hard on them David - they have got bills to pay - almost certainly bills from the Consultant who told them this new membership class was what was needed and how much they should charge. I seem to remember McKinsey used to be embedded at the RYA for years on end - are they still there? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 2:04pm
| At a guess it looks like they're planning to send different handouts and info to casual boaters and committed racers. |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 2:05pm
|
Hearted to see that I am not the only dimwit unable to see what the new graded classifications are all about. I can only guess the smoke is in my eyes and I'm bedazzled by the mirrors. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 2:35pm
|
I emailed the RYA yesterday to find out why i was now accredited Gold rather than Instructor with a gold extra bit. No reply yet, will let you know the answer. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 3:08pm
|
I wonder what would happen if there was a serious attempt to disenfranchise them from Windsurfing and Dinghy sailing or at east set up an alternate body, PADI v BSAC style we have a little thread going on the windsurf forum where it is exactly forty years since they asked a few of us if we'd like them to represent us at a regatta at Farmoor reservoir in the autumn of 1977 needless to say not too many fans there yet our alleged membership revenue is similar to dinghy racers.
They do even less for windsurfing than they do for the grass roots of dinghydom and the organisation is now by and large just a corporation rather than an Association of classes as it once was. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 3:48pm
|
Very nice reply from the RYA, with the explanation below:
No conspiracy, I'm afraid! The changes that will be most obvious to existing members are the new look cards, with a new fresh modern design and the four new ‘Categories’ of membership, which are as follows: Pathway For those who have just discovered boating Personal For recreational boaters Associate For boaters who are members of an RYA affiliated club or association Accredited For RYA Instructors, RYA race officials, RYA race coach level 2 & 3, commercial endorsements holders, British Youth Sailing Squad and World Class Programme sailors. All exiting instructor members have been moved in to the new Accredited membership category. Research concluded that our Instructor’s want to be recognised and we believe the new Accredited category will do this. You still have access to the same exclusive offers and discounts, but Instructors will now sit within the same category as other key industry professionals as detailed above. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 4:38pm
|
Super dim here again. But why? What's the difference? Accredited I guess I can see, but the others and all the same rate? What am I missing?
|
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 4:45pm
|
I guess that it is Associate that stands out as an inferior membership class, which seems wrong given this class of member is most likely to be actively competing in the sport, when there is no reduction is RYA sub for the lesser grade of membership, or financial recognition that you may have contributed to the RYA twice already by way of your class and club subs. I would sugest that this has been ill considered and refects an Association that has lost its compass and has poorly communicated these policy changes; for instance searching for RYA on this site does not bring up any press release explaining the benefits of this new initiative. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 6:14pm
|
So you see associate as a branding inferior to personal? Interesting. I'd put it the other way.
It makes a lot of sense to differentiate competitive sailors and boaters from non-competitive, but it might have been better done in metadata rather than creating two equal but distinct classes of membership that people might swap between. There are, after all, going to be folk who both race competitively at clubs and potter around in canal boats, and would have an interest in both sides of the coin. |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 6:30pm
|
My professional association has Members, Associates and Affiliates in declining order of status ... I guess that I am indoctrinated by this status. But to me an Associate does not sound like a Full member, even though an Associate pays the same amount. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 6:35pm
|
This page:
http://www.rya.org.uk/membership/Pages/join-the-rya.aspx Makes the Associate look like a step up from Personal, so most likely on a canal boaters or something forum somewhere there's an equal and opposite dialogue going on... 
Actually if I read it right all four seem to be the same money... |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 8:17pm
|
Seems unnecessarily complicated to me. I sympathise with instructors and co having a different category - as they have to be members to be certified - but the rest? Some idiot consultant has been paid a load of money and the RYA probably thought they had to go along even though they all thought it was a load of rubbish - whereas they should have demanded their money back! ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 8:00am
|
Nope, really can't see what the RYA have done wrong here. Seems for some, just the concept of the whole organisation is enough to make every comment negative. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 9:05am
| As a non professional sailor this all feels like way too much faff. I sail for fun and to get away from the day to day crap of the day job. This reminds me of why I let my DI and coach quals expire a few years back, as I couldn't work out why I was shelling out for full RYA membership and insurance as well as my clubs RYA affiliation fees just so as I could continue as a volunteer coach. I think the RYA structure is aimed at the professional, eg the RDO's and professional training centres, and is over the top for amateurs. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 10:10am
So you were doing for free, in fact you had to pay to do it, what the 'jobs for the boys' lot wanted to get paid for.... it seems totally logical that they would engineer a situation where you questioned what you were doing, thus protection said jobs for the boys. |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 10:57am
|
I see no advantage to being a personal or associate member of this distant body. All my sailing is personal especially when racing and i already involuntarily contribute to these fat cats by dint of club and class affiliation fees.
Even if the add on cost of being a full member was only £5-10, i cannot see myself shelling out for this for the meagre return. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 11:50am
I am not quite so cynical, I can see the benefits of a national body working to promote our sport, in the same way as I might join the National Trust because they look after the footpaths around Devon which I enjoy. The question is, which sport? I know of one instance where the RYA was asked to assist a sailing club to protect it's water against a marina development, where the RYA would not get involved for fear of upsetting its motor boating members. The problem with the RYA is that it tries to look after all boaters interests, whereas the clue should be in the name, and it should primarily look after sailors interests. Ironically the new membership structure could lend itself to identify the faction that does the sport of sailing ... and could be more effective at lobbying. Or will the new structure lead to a Council made up of representatives of each membership grade? Having done some committee work for the RYA in the past at their invitation , which I became a full member to facilitate, it struck me that the RYA has a civil service mentality, and the question "how does this help your members" made you out to be one of the awkward squad. As an aside, does the RYA have a pension black hole? ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 12:02pm
|
I used to have commercial endorsements on YM and Powerboat. I can imagine that the going rate for such people to join a trade body for the purposes of their job is in 3 figures, like the trade body I pay in to for my job. I can't see any point in having different types of membership unless the fees are going to diverge? |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 12:10pm
|
"I am not quite so cynical, I can see the benefits of a national body working to promote our sport, in the same way as I might join the National Trust because they look after the footpaths around Devon which I enjoy. The question is, which sport? I know of one instance where the RYA was asked to assist a sailing club to protect it's water against a marina development, where the RYA would not get involved for fear of upsetting its motor boating members."
I'm afraid i am. Maybe my background in running a membership organisation in the past. I always want to know what i am getting for my fees. At least with the NT you get to visit their houses for free and to walk on the footpaths they maintain. RYA - a quarterly magazine which has little of interest to me in it. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 1:30pm
|
I have attended 3 RYA organised training days recently. One was heavily subsidised by the RYA and cost me £20 for a day of workshops. The others were free for me, being paid for by the club, using RYA trained speakers. So for me, the RYA isn't faceless. If you don't have those points of interaction, then I can see why it would appear that way. None of those who I know get paid direct by the RYA earn very much from it, and usually have a second job to make ends meet.
I agree that the RYA has conflicts of interest. This is the price of having a big enough trade body to have clout with those who would like to run more and more of our lives. Is the balance right? Could be better, but I fear it is likely to get worse. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 8:20pm
| Its well worth taking a good look at posts on SA about US Sailing. Because its effectively a racing sailors only body it seems pretty much toothless and influence free with the US government, and the results is they have way way more government interference than we do. Having the RYA take a neutral stance if the issue is motorboaters versus sailboaters is a price well worth paying if the alternative is a body like US sailing with no influence at all. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 8:39pm
| The difficulty the RYA have is that, being older and broader in scope, it does not directly reflect its "parent" World Sailing, which is focused on the sport aspect of sailing. At least a part of the RYA needs to better align with WS as a sailboat racing organisation, but the RYA is far broader on remit. |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 9:11pm
Unless of course you can remember a time when a phone call to Edmund Whelan would generally produce the desired effect and the RYA truly represented Sailsport and served to protect us from Governmental influence.
------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 9:36pm
| Caravan club just changed it's name to Caravan and Motorhome club, lets hope they are not trying RYA approach "catch all represent none" |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 25 Mar 17 at 9:45pm
|
Good to hear you speak well of my cousin Edmond, grf!
I remember that even back then the RYA was thought of as too big and juggling too many pies, though. Generally, then and now, I've found if you contact them, an individual will be happy to help. As with any organisation, it is made up of people, and unlike most, they actually seem to want to help. However, the number of people working at grass roots dinghy sailing level is being reduced, which can't help in the long run. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 7:37am
Exactly. In the supposed land of the free, boats have to be registered. In Europe, there are places where a licence is needed. A lot of the work the RYA do go towards maintaining our freedoms, and it's mainly for that reason that I'm a member. Well, that and having to be.
|
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 8:13am
|
I am not saying that the RYA does no good work. However for an organisation claiming to be all encompassing the desire to label "boaters" seems contradictory and slightly indicative of an affection towards moving paper around for the sake of it. I Class race, Club race and have an inshore fishing boat....................... ?
|
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 10:33am
| Our regional rep very helpful, with us through a difficult period, club now on a sound footing, would be a shame if he was laid off. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 10:50am
|
This is the ting. Those who do not make any effort to find out what the RYA actually does are all too quick to dis them. I was sceptical. Then I became a DI and met some of the RDOs. In my experience they are a passionate group of people who case deeply about what happens to sailing as a sport and to sailing clubs. Our local RDO was instrumental in getting us our first Sport England grant and (I believe) is helping with a current application. Without these people (and the org that pays their wages) wour sport would be in very dire straits indeed. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 11:12am
|
I do not disagree that the RYA does good things, our club has benefited considerably from regional support and Sport England investment initiatated by the RYA. My reason for starting this post was to highlight what in my opinion is a poor initiative in splitting Personal, Associate and Affiliate grades of membership without offering any financial benefit albeit small to those who already contribute through their Class Associations and Clubs. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 11:46am
|
Being a member of a club or CA gives benefits that aren't available to private individuals. Part of you club/CA fees go towards funding that. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 12:18pm
| United we stand divided we fall, platitude I know but still true, without a unified body regardless of flaws, sailing would be picked at, for instance local council doesn't want our club in country park, we are a nuisance expecting them to do things for us, they want our building for storing farm equipment and galley for rangers, you know type of thing councils are good at. RYA behind us makes it to much trouble. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 1:12pm
But they're not grades of membership. This has been clearly established in the thread. All 4 categories have the same basic rights and privileges. The only enhanced grades are gold and life. So, put brutally, the whole premise of your complaint fails. |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 8:13pm
He was an outstanding Assett of the RYA, did a lot of good work I don't know if he was ever recognised for it as against certain elements that were only hanging around to line their own pockets getting OBE's. Characters like him quintessential Gentlemen that gave even the legal industry a good name, he has nothing but respect from me. Jenny Curry another acceptable face of the RYA sadly missed from the organisation of the dinghy show, there were always some good people there, maybe I'm just out of touch these days, maybe I'm just old and cynical but the phrase 'they don't breed them like that anymore' springs to mind. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |