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Stars

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12693
Printed Date: 06 Jul 25 at 7:27pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Stars
Posted By: rich96
Subject: Stars
Date Posted: 11 Mar 17 at 10:04am
Is it just me or does watching the Stars in Miami (and the Star League events) confirm what a terrible decision it was to drop them from the Olympics ?

The coverage is amazing and the boats look so good. They must represent the peak of 'small' boat racing ?

Way more interesting that watching the skiffs, Nacras etc at the Olympics.



Replies:
Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 11 Mar 17 at 10:24am
Rich96,
Interestingly enough, I was asked about this at the Show last weekend. From my (albeit it limited) perspective, there are two boats that you could 'drop' into the Olympics today without recreating the wheel. You've the Star, as you so rightly pointed out - and the Etchells. Their recent Worlds here on the Isle of Wight were a showcase of close, tactical, world class quality competition. Out of the two, my own money would be on the Star, the boat that has more comebacks than Cher!

Yet, at the same time, there has to be the acceptance that bringing back the Star (or even giving the Etchells a shot) would fly in the face of much of the current WS thinking. The Star in particular is probably one of the most technically demanding 2 person boats out there, which makes it hard for the boat to appeal to the 'new' nations that WS are so keen to attract. Nor is it a boat that can be said to be strong with the youth scene and it cannot be denied that Star campaigns are horribly expensive. Please note; this is the line of reasoning that I see, not that I think is right.

I could well see the MNAs, even in the so called 'wealthier' countries being very circumspect in how they approach this issue; many still have fleets of Elliott 6s from the Woman's Match Racing experiment that lasted for one Olympic rotation.

But - who is going to make way for a 100+ year old boat and at the same time, create a slot for foiling kiteboarders? 3 into 2 hasn't gone in the past and still will not do so after 2020.

D


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Dougal H


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 11 Mar 17 at 9:29pm
-

And not all Star sailors are hulking beasts anymore. Top boats for sure


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OK 2249
D-1 138


Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 11 Mar 17 at 10:13pm
I agree. Stars might be old but need lots of skill to sail. Train through existing classes, Grad, Ent etc no need for spinnaker nonsense when you can get the crew to stand on the foredeck (not on my Grad though!). I've never seen a Yngling or an Elliot-where are they now?

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Stewart


Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 9:00am
Great pic, it makes you realise just how damn big that mainsail is. But then, of course the boat is no lightweight!

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Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59


Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 9:03am
I saw a tiny amount of the 'lympic star racing at Weymoth on the telly.
a lot of standing on the foredeck and wobbling the boat.
Looked like refugees from It's a Knockout.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 10:53am
Originally posted by drifter

I've never seen a Yngling or an Elliot

Have you ever *seen* a Star?


Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 12:12pm
With the creation of the Star Sailors League the class has worked incredibly hard to maintain a high profile and offer the sailors continued high class competition around the world, more meaningful to many of us has been the great reporting and live coverage offered from all the "big" events, like many other classes giving far better live coverage than we see from the Olympics.

I plead guilty to streaming the events and at times being gripped by the close racing, whatever the conditions, it's a shame there is no representation from the UK (apart from by VIP invitation to the finals) but let's not discuss that.
The Star Sailors League provides high quality competition for the competitors at a huge variety of venues, excellent online coverage and of course significant prizes are up for grabs, you can only applaud the class for keeping all this going.

I have never or are ever likely to sail a Star, but that's not the point, it's provided as entertainment for the sailors and the viewers.


Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by drifter

I've never seen a Yngling or an Elliot-where are they now?


There are a few Elliots at WPNSA, they have been retained for a variety of match racing events and can be seen in Portland Harbour several weekends a year.
In fact I seem to remember last year you could have seen an Yngling and a Star also sat in the compound there, although they may well have gone by now.




Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by drifter

I've never seen a Yngling or an Elliot

Have you ever *seen* a Star?

Ah that old myth that no one sails Stars. 
There is a UK fleet in Norfolk and a few others here and there in the U.K., but it's a strong class elsewhere. When I had my last one there was something like 4000 active boats around the world in the yearbook which is a little bit more than the total numbers built of that oft quoted popular keelboat the Flying Fifteen.
We often accuse the Americans of suffering from a limited world view, but for sailboats we can be just as bad


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OK 2249
D-1 138


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by KazRob

Ah that old myth that no one sails Stars. 
There is a UK fleet in Norfolk and a few others here and there in the U.K., but it's a strong class elsewhere.

Not a myth at all. The Wroxham Stars, at least when I last saw them, seemed to be in effect just another local one design class without much connection to the world scene (although they do buy the odd second hand boat I expect). Other than that I have only ever seen one Star on the water once.

When you look at the ISAF numbers it becomes evident that there are no truly worldwide keelboat classes, they're all regional to a greater or lesser extent. There are classes in the Americas, classes with a strong European base, even Classes that are predominantly commonwealth, but true worldwide popularity, like say the Laser or Optimist, seems to elude all of them. That's why the Yngling ended up as a Olympic class. It had some kind of fleet in a a few local hotspots on more continents than any of the other choices did, and so looked like the least worst choice.


Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by drifter

I've never seen a Yngling or an Elliot

Have you ever *seen* a Star?


Yes, used to see them in the central Solent reasonably often. Not lately I must admit. I have see Elliots, not sure I have every seen an Yngling.

I haven't seen a Cherub or an IC recently though.


Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 4:15pm
The Elliot 6s were mainly based at Weymouth as they were  chosen as the boat for the Women's Match Racing. As you'll recall, this was going to be the BIG thing in the five ring circus, though some cynics might say that the idea was at the behest of the US who thought that they'd have sure fire golden prospects in the discipline.
Ynglings another matter - go out to mainland Europe and you'll find them sailed by lots of young ladies......

But back to the OP; Yes, by definition the Star is a keelboat, in some much that it drags around a lump of metal slung permanently under the hull (as against the Finn that can raise and lower the lump of metal). But how does this translate into a representation of the  large numbers of people who sail boats ranging from the smaller sports boats to the  super-maxis. They are every bit as much a racing community as the RS-Xs, kiteboarders, Finn or 470s sailors....but in WS terms, don't appear to be getting much in the way of recognition -  unless they think that there is a family relationship between the Star and these other boats.
I'm just glad that someone will be sorting the mess out!
D


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Dougal H


Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by blueboy

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by drifter

I've never seen a Yngling or an Elliot

Have you ever *seen* a Star?


Yes, used to see them in the central Solent reasonably often. Not lately I must admit. I have see Elliots, not sure I have every seen an Yngling.

I haven't seen a Cherub or an IC recently though.

ISTR a couple of stars in Cowes about 20 years ago.
Possibly Olympic triallists or left over from the campaign?
Was there ever a proper fleet? Or did the build-up mostly occur on the continent?


Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 7:09pm
Yes, thanks for asking

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Stewart


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 7:12pm
The ISAF reports are as good as one is going to get for getting some sort of picture where classes are strong. Here's the most recent Star one.

http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/STA2016ClassReport-[19941].pdf

To find these go to http://www.sailing.org/classesandequipment/index.php,navigate to the class you want, click the "technical" tab, and then find class reports link.


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 8:02pm
5500 boats worldwide isn't bad by any measure tho. Think the latest sail numbers are around 8500

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OK 2249
D-1 138


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 8:07pm
I always wonder how on earth classes are supposed to get that figure (How many boats exist worldwide). I don't think any of the classes I've been involved in administration with would have a clue.


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 8:22pm
Ah - the Stars have had a full time professional class office since the early days. The year book lists the whereabouts and owner of every boat in every fleet and any isolated members worldwide. Impressive stuff - even those in museums are listed. I do believe the guy that set it all up may have been a bit OCD and famously said that if the office ever got asked if something was allowed under the rules to say 'No - you can never be wrong if you say no initially'

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OK 2249
D-1 138


Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 9:06pm
There's a lovely one for sale at South Queensferry by Edinburgh. My wife and I have seen it several times, I tell her it's just a big uncapsizeable Albacore, but she won't let me buy it...

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Stewart


Posted By: RS300 555
Date Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 10:48am
Having sailed Stars in 2012 as


Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 12:20pm
[QUOTE=RS300 555]Having sail


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 12:54pm
I thought (while admitting my bias) that the Star medal race at Weymouth was thrilling with the medals literally being decided in the last few seconds.

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OK 2249
D-1 138


Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 4:14pm
Stars and Etchells, Ynglings .... you do all realise it is 2017 not 1967 anymore right?

No, I'm not saying everything needs to be made of carbon and fly on foils but neither does it need to be a tweaky ancient-but-much-messed-with keelboat that can only be purchased or sailed by rich nations or very rich individuals.

You can see great big fleets, close tactical racing and high standards of boat handling in 470's and they don't cost the bl**dy earth or require a crane to get into and out of the water


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by getafix

Stars and Etchells, Ynglings .... you do all realise it is 2017 not 1967 anymore right?No, I'm not saying everything needs to be made of carbon and fly on foils but neither does it need to be a tweaky ancient-but-much-messed-with keelboat that can only be purchased or sailed by rich nations or very rich individuals.You can see great big fleets, close tactical racing and high standards of boat handling in 470's and they don't cost the bl**dy earth or require a crane to get into and out of the water



So, logically, we should all just sail Picos or even stand up paddle boards at the Olympics ?

Or is the Olympics aimed at the peak of sailing ???


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by getafix

Stars and Etchells, Ynglings .... you do all realise it is 2017 not 1967 anymore right?

No, I'm not saying everything needs to be made of carbon and fly on foils but neither does it need to be a tweaky ancient-but-much-messed-with keelboat that can only be purchased or sailed by rich nations or very rich individuals.

You can see great big fleets, close tactical racing and high standards of boat handling in 470's and they don't cost the bl**dy earth or require a crane to get into and out of the water

Not the best comparator necessarily. A competitive 470 is £25k or more and the polyester-only build and rig tension loads means it's trashed after 6 months, good for nothing in racing terms.

Fireballs embraced building with decent materials - cost half as much (admittedly with no stupid 5-ring price premium) and last for years at the top level

And I suspect a Star is cheap compared to TP52, say. There's boats for everybody.


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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 7:30pm
My last Star cost me £6k. A pretty bullet proof Mader and I never felt it was slower than I was. Sold it a few years later fir much the same (in less than a week) after a good bit of fun playing on the continent at various events. I'd say it was good value overall and I'm by no means loaded

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OK 2249
D-1 138



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