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In every dream home..

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12685
Printed Date: 06 Jul 25 at 7:24pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: In every dream home..
Posted By: G.R.F.
Subject: In every dream home..
Date Posted: 04 Mar 17 at 6:17pm
A heartache.
And every step I take, 
takes me further from heaven,
  is there a heaven? 
 I'd like to think so,'
... or so the words of that famous Roxy Music song about the chap and his Blow up doll go, deluxe and delightful, disposable darling, the perfect companion or so it seemed, for the Farr 37 as a young chap appeared to be wrestling it into place. Clearly someone well versed with the manipulation of the ungrateful hussy, who was resisting his attempts to close her legs and mount her as a trapeze artiste, just his luck I should show up, frantically thrashing every button the iPhone had to fire up its camera and snap the first delight of this years dinghy show. 
 Turned out it was none other than perhaps not so young Cap'n Jack Sparrow from here and much banter ensued and I got a good discussion about the Farr37, followed by an intriguing chat with a guy on the National 12 stand. following the logic of maybe building a gantry and Tfoil to deal with the pitching moment that would probably ensue if the little Farr had to deal with our chop down here. Then they introduced me to a chipper young beauty from Seaford who at 47 kilos seems to do OK and what am I blubbering about at 67 kgs. Then I tried the rig, with it's carbon mast and the downhaul actually did proper windsurfing style depower stuff, there was a guy there who'd built one himself and reckons there isn't a breeze strong enough to stop him taking it out, short of a hurricane.
Getting back to that National 12, I had a great technical discussion with a young guy he'd fitted a flap on the centreboard and shortened the foil reckons the increased efficiency of an asymmetric plate with the reduced drag of a shorter chord will produce good results, we talked about that over maybe a gybing plate and came to the conclusion he was probably right provided there was enough wind speed for movement over the foil but he might suffer leeway in lighter wind if there was insufficient flow. I love this show for chats like that, really stimulating what with the plastic doll as well, this years show was off to a great start.
I had promised to man the Solution stand so spent a fair bit of time there but not without checking out the F101, a tad too big for our boat park but quite a stunning creation none the less and the thing I'd most like a go on although the Mike Lennon moth with it's incredibly upswept wings in the foyer was equally tempting but probably impractical for those of us prone to snr moments.
We were also checking out Streakers but were diverted by the Byte with its price tag and rig, then there was the new Blaze on Hartleys and the Contender, would they consider a Contender Cutdown, no I didn't think so, but it had to be asked, they could build one to 55kgs, imagine that with a more manageable and stable rig, we can dream.
There's loads going on this year and if it is to be the last then better it ended on a high, much better than last year, I still didn't get to see everybody I intended but it was fun, a great day out, no doubt there will be more I remember later, but I thought I just had to report so far..














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Replies:
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 04 Mar 17 at 6:37pm
Check the rise and uplift of the tramps on this Mike Lennon moth, why? My guess would be more ability to cant over to windward windsurf style without touching the wings down, but looks like a bird, swallow style, very nice boat, nobody to chat to it was out side, but obviously if you know about this stuff you'll probably get it anyway and us low riders just get to gape in awe and troll over to the F101 stand.

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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 04 Mar 17 at 6:53pm
I guess the next trick is to make the leeward wing work as useful sail area?


Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 04 Mar 17 at 8:47pm
Trifle useless info at this point GRF, but the chap in the background to your Moth pic is also a Solution sailor.


Posted By: 17mika
Date Posted: 04 Mar 17 at 11:04pm
The high wings are just to get more righting moment when heeled upwind.. nothing to do with touching the water, because that is almost never a problem in a moth.

Sweet looking boat, by the way :)


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 12:11am
Originally posted by 17mika

The high wings are just to get more righting moment when heeled upwind.. nothing to do with touching the water, because that is almost never a problem in a moth.

Sweet looking boat, by the way :)
I dunno, the wings being as high as they are, were in fact closer to the centre line, that was quite obvious from another Moth nearby with conventional straight wings that only raised the 'normal' angle. So not 'more' righting moment than normal in fact you could argue less, maybe a heavier sailor who wants to ride more inboard and lever from there, my money is still on more windward cant and therefore more lift from the sail to complement the foil, it would have been great if someone had been on hand to ask. Ironically I met a guy who allegedly had a hand in it, old mate from windsurfing, Simon Reynolds a mothy, I should have asked him he'd have known.


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Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 12:16am
Originally posted by Oinks

Trifle useless info at this point GRF, but the chap in the background to your Moth pic is also a Solution sailor.
Think I might have met him later if he's the lone Burfield warrior.


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Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 8:12am
Yes, he is. And seems to enjoy the boat too.


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 8:20am
The moths sail upwind heeled well to windward so those canted wings then effectively become horizontal and increase the leverage


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 9:54am
I'd love to think it is simply to make the boat looks cool, like something batman would sail, but pretty sure it has been well thought through for max righting moment.

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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 11:38am
Presumably the wings will be max width (no point in them being narrower) so being upswept must increase the righting moment as the boat heels to windward to the point when the wing is horizontal?


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 11:49am
Nope I still make the argument that if you follow the logic,
1) They are closer to the centre line.
2)They permit the rig to be hauled further to windward without dipping in the water thus reducing the sail area presented to side forces and generating more upward lift vector without over cooking the righting moment and going in to weather.

That means less righting moment, but more versatility with the righting moment available.

I reckon.


Or.. sudden thought they are actually wider, but being curved upward remain within whatever measurement defines how wide they can be, then they do all that stuff I said up there anyway.

But they certainly look kewell and I hope it blasts to the front of the fleet.

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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 12:35pm
As long as the wing to wing measurement is no more than 2250mm they are legal, the more they angle upwards (the curve may be ergonomic but makes no difference to max leverage) the longer that can be (from hull to tip) without exceeding the max width measurement. Leverage increases until the windward wing is horizontal. That is compounded by the fact that the roll centre of the boat is a couple of feet below the hull when foiling so the righting actual moment is the horizontal distance between the RC and the end of the wing.

And, yes, it does look very jewell 


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 12:39pm
Another thought, are they curved so you don't just slide off them when the boat is sailing nearer to upright?


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 5:37pm
they may be really springy, when sat on they could flatten out ?????


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by 423zero

they may be really springy, when sat on they could flatten out ?????


Would be a novel approach, one I'd love to see in action, as they go to sit out the wing spits them backwards into the water.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 6:08pm
Or tosses them over the rig (I wondered why they call them trampolines) :)


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 6:21pm
would be interesting to see what would happen in waves un-damped spring Big smile do foiling moths bob in waves ? can't say I know much about them.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 6:26pm
From what I've seen on youtube foiling Moths bob all the time until the pilot becomes pretty skilful LOL


Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 7:40pm
I'm still struggling with why the leeward wing presenting itself as a damn great near-vertical surface in the airflow isn't a very bad idea?
Or is it working as a sail?

Anyone?


Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 11:34pm
If you saw the Mike Lennon talk at the show he explained with various diagrams how the upswept wing increased the righting moment. The distance between the edge of the wing and the tip of the foil is greater the more upswept it is, and of course you are sailing the Moth canted over to windward so the helm's weight is effectively further away from the tip of the foil. But he also said that if the wings are too upswept they become a problem for the crew when moving from side to side, so there is a trade-off at some point.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 05 Mar 17 at 11:43pm
Wot I said Wink


Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 6:23am
i'm wondering if when sailing the toe straps are held up a bit further at one end, they look like you'd need to find a spare hand to get your feet in them now and that, in my low-riding Moth experience might be the second or two which makes the difference between swimming and sailing


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 9:41am
Originally posted by NickM

of course you are sailing the Moth canted over to windward so the helm's weight is effectively further away from the tip of the foil. But he also said that if the wings are too upswept they become a problem for the crew when moving from side to side, so there is a trade-off at some point.


Of course.. it's the distance from the foil that increases, not the centreline of the boat, so it's win win.

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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 9:45am
And they can be longer but still measure, I make that win win win :)



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