Cadets now singlehanders
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12605
Printed Date: 07 Jul 25 at 1:11am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Cadets now singlehanders
Posted By: Rupert
Subject: Cadets now singlehanders
Date Posted: 31 Dec 16 at 10:14am
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I thought this was a thing of the past. 2 reports from the worlds, and the only place to find crew names is in the results list, (and the sub headline, presumably inserted by Mark or Mags). Poor, very poor. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Replies:
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 31 Dec 16 at 1:27pm
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Agreed Rupert (as I commented last night). Perhaps it's a Cadet thing. The model does tend to be older helm and much younger crew (see the World's photos), unlike the Fevas for example, and thus it's perhaps one of the last refuge of the unequal partnership/credit. Which is also perhaps why the Cadet has suffered recently and seems to be limited to a few Wast Coast bastions. Hopefully some Cadet aficiniado will pop along and tell me how wrong I am - but also take the hint: THOSE YOUNG CREWS SHOULD BE FEATURING IN LIGHTS ON Y&Y not just the helms!
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Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 31 Dec 16 at 1:27pm
| East Coast bastions. |
Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 31 Dec 16 at 2:57pm
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Simple answer .. no crews names supplied ? Then don't publish the helms name - and only the boat number gets a mention. That should sort it all out rather quickly .... if helms do not make sure the crews name is included in any report then .... as sure as eggs are eggs the parents will ! |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 31 Dec 16 at 3:28pm
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I remember doing a Mirror Open on the Thames in the 60s (hms worcester?) where crews were not mentioned in the prize giving and were not called up , sounds like Cadets are still back there!
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 31 Dec 16 at 5:56pm
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Cirrus, all the crew names are there in black and white in the results, just nary a mention in the write up. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 31 Dec 16 at 6:34pm
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Hi Rupert So I understand but it is also general point ... and it is not just associated with junior crews sadly. It could be that Y&Y takes a strong position on crews 'mentions' and naming to 'encourage' a bit more of an inclusive approach. Maybe responding when news is first received and asking the writer to add in the 'missing' names etc before it is processed further. It could really help .... We need crewing classes to prosper as in the 'old days' many started in competitive sailing via crewing in 2 crew boats. A relative decline in 2-crew boats can even be seen even against other -ve trends .... 'ignoring' the most important 'other' people in the boat does not encourage ..... Happy new year ..... |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 31 Dec 16 at 7:52pm
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To an extent the press will be motivated to report crew names on the "names sell newspapers" principle, possibly even stronger for junior classes. But equally in these days of low circulation and minimal staffing, if a report comes in with the forward hands omitted, will there be the time available to go through the report and results and rewrite?
And for whoever is writing the report, leaving out half the names not only saves a bunch of typing, but also makes the report flow better and easier to write. I often have trouble getting reports to flow nicely. Listing every crew as Smith/Jones seems nasty, but equally "2nd was Smith and Jones and third was Sung and Johnson" gets horribly long winded and needs to be worked on very carefully to avoid confusion. Even worse if you need to get both given names and surnames in the mix. When doing Cherub reports it was easier because boat names are so prominent in that class, but they're about the only one these days... |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 02 Jan 17 at 12:07pm
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Face the facts. The reality is an awful lot of two-person boats are sailed on the basis of the second person being less skilled/competitive/involved.... I've never sailed a cadet, but I recall a college friend telling me the perfect cadet crew was a small person who did very little. Were there not jokes about standing them in the bucket so they couldn't move at the wrong time? A lot of youngsters start their racing lives as more or less passengers in a two person boat, before growing to get more involved. It's actually a great stength of sailing that people can crew at club level without being that critical to the club results. Also trying to collate results for a long series where some people have a different crew every day is not possible with dodgy information. Clearly what is right for an amateur club or a fun regatta is not right for a National Championship of a serious class though. But the 'amateur' amateurs are just as important for the sport. By the way, I say this in the light of having enjoyed being the 3rd, 8th or whatever person on the boat and really not deserving a mention in the results. Can you imagine equal-ops reporting of Sigma 38s? by the time you'd listed the crew of the first boat, half the fleet would have passed by! |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 02 Jan 17 at 12:42pm
True enough, but isn't that all the more reason that the newcomer gets mentioned in any results? Can't think of many sports where the other participant isn't mentioned in the case of placing. I find it extraordinary, I know my high level experience is more limited to windsurfing but I wouldn't have been happy as the front end of a tandem and not being mentioned, particularly when we'd done something spectacular. It's wrong, in my mind it would have been wrong back then in the seventies (my tandem racing period) it's even more wrong now, there are two in the boat, both play a significant role (well you do if I'm helming), both MUST be mentioned. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 02 Jan 17 at 1:51pm
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We encourage the crews to be mentioned in reports and ask for them in the http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/159427/Guidelines-for-submitting-reports-to-Yachts-and-Yachting" rel="nofollow - guidelines . I've added in the full results for the Cadet Worlds reports and I'll talk to the author to get the crews mentioned. |
Posted By: Sheetpuller
Date Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 12:38pm
Well, 2017 has started in a most extraordinary way... I agree wholeheartedly with iGRF!  ------------- I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right. Merlin Rocket 3545 - 'Smooth Operator' Sprint 15 1342 - 'Still Crazy' |
Posted By: Tom J
Date Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 2:22pm
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Solved the problem... put the crews down 1st so if anyone gets missed it'll be the helm :) - http://smelt.info/entries
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 11:01pm
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Huge congratulations to Antonia Wilkinson on becoming world champ. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 08 Jan 17 at 6:39am
| It's just good to see someone right at the top that I've actually watched doing ordinary club racing while I've been RO. |
Posted By: salmon80
Date Posted: 09 Jan 17 at 8:38pm
Brave kids flying the union flag in Argentina. Surprised the locals didn't start ranting about the Malvinas 
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 09 Jan 17 at 9:20pm
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So long as you aren't a Clarkson wind up merchant or a politician, I'd imagine the locals will be very hospitable. Hope so, anyway. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 09 Jan 17 at 10:17pm
| football or rugby might be some trouble, but more technical sports like sailing and cycling etc probably like minded people, more enlightened if you like |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 10 Jan 17 at 10:30am
That isn't the case for a lot of teams. My crew isn't as good at helming as I am but I'm not as good as crewing as she is. I wouldn't mind betting that this is the case on the majority of regular teams.......in our case she also does more work. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 10 Jan 17 at 10:36am
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I tried helming a Merlin once, we didn't do too badly, the next time I tried crewing, I think we were last or next to last. Crewing on some craft requires greater skill than helming imv. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 10 Jan 17 at 12:21pm
I didn't say it was everyone, but it is a lot of boats. To win opens etc, the crew needs to be as good as the helm. To get round the cans on a wednesday night, a lot of club sailors are taking whatever passenger they can get and making the best of it. In between is where some crews don't get the recognition they deserve. As someone who sometimes has to sort results, a lot of people don't help themselves, crews being entered as nicknames or just left blank. It's worse on bigger boats, sometimes it's just the person with the cheque book who gets any recognition, not even the helm.... In my sailing career, Cowes Week used to only list'owner' or 'entered by' in the results. How many crews in the AC do people take an interest in? |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 10 Jan 17 at 2:38pm
Aye, been there. With regard to our own results, we ( I say we) seem to have solved that issue........my crew insists on signing on herself. |