They say

WHY IS THE WAND ON THE TRAILING EDGE OF THE MAIN FOIL? The F101 has its control wand fixed to the back of the trailing edge of the main foil, as opposed to the mounted at the bow which is where Moth’s mount  the foil. There are a number of advantages to the trailing edge position, the most important of which is that the wand measures the ride height of the boat irrespective of pitch. This important factor can help to eliminate the porpoise effect which many beginners experience when learning to sail a Moth.

Originally posted by Oinks "Foiling for everyone"  Knee-jerk response...  Not at that price  Not on my small lake  Not if I want some proper competitive racing  Another niche craft, in a niche market, with not very many niches left.  But mildly interesting.

Yup, sounds about right

Why is a tri a better platform than a cat?

I think the tri vs cat thing gives them a few advantages, for starters the correct windward heel is programmed into the angle of the outriggers so no need to get it right, just sit to windward and sheet in. 

Are there any cats with 'proper' wand controlled foils as opposed to curved boards?

The UFO.  

This F101 looks a big boat for the typical boat park.

Not if the emphasis on foiling means that people start to believe that it is the only valid form of the sport, as happened with windsurfing when they started promoting high winds and shortboards as the only valid form of the sport.

The most popular "equipment intensive" sport in the world is one where the legends use essentially the same kit as many weekend warriors, and the rules make that kit about 40% slower than the fastest gear but much cheaper and easier to use. Many other sports and disciplines have suffered when they tried to tell everyone that they needed to sail costly and difficult to use leading-edge kit.

Windsurfing has always been manufacturer driven though by, mostly, big players trying to get you to buy another new board or sail and many of the (supposed) innovations came into being for that reason alone.

Dinghy is moving in that direction but, fortunately, has 100+ years of history behind it so there is a solid foundation. It also has the concept of 'One Design' which windsurfing has never really embraced (ok there are a couple outside of the Olympics), it has been hijacked by the SMOD 'revolution' but the majority of sailors sail the same boat for many years (unlike many windsurfers) who change kit relatively frequently.

Even in windsurfing the more extreme trends usually die out or become very niche after a while (FW is a case in point).

The market for expensive foiling trimarans will be small and I doubt it will impact on note conservative designs. What is causing the general public to perceive sailing as elitist and unattainable is stuff like the AC series. The Olympic kit is pretty moderate by comparison and similar to what your average pond sailor sails.

We can talk development without just accepting that it will all be positive in all ways.  People including manufacturers, leading sailors and commentators are saying thing like  "foiling is the future for young sailors"; "this is the future"; "the best sailors only want to race on foils"; "it is the future of our sport at all levels....If you’re a young kid getting into sailing you want to be in the foiling generation."  That's pretty much saying that the rest of the sport is invalid.

There is by some a search for "easy to achieve speed" to my mind this is a slightly flawed quest. If it's easy where's the buzz and satisfaction. Of course, nobody would deny the benefit of good ergonomics and efficient designs, but easy? meaning minimal skill required?

Sounds perfect for much of the younger generation (and a fair proportion of the older gen too) 

Are we breeding all passengers and takers now?

But surely lots of sailors can get more than enough challenge, accomplishment and learning from trying to sail "seahuggers". Isn't there just as much challenge in doing something even better as there is in trying to do something new? Doing something as ancient as (for example) singing or running is still challenging - so is sailing a Solo better than you did last week, no?

There's also the issue that there can be a lot of frustration if you try to take up a challenge that doesn't really work with your basic personal life, such as trying to sail a foiler well if you live and sail somewhere where the winds are light and fluky. And since these craft aren't cheap, most of us will have to give up something else - often something that offers other challenges - to afford them. 

Finally, a sport can be dynamic in ways apart from developing and using new high-performance kit. 

Cheers, and I think the last bit is vital, and we need to do that without implying that the older types are inferior.

You have got the wrong end of my point about challenge, we are not far apart and said exactly what I have. 

Sailing!

Races longer than school lessons....

Kids hanging off their coaches every word for twice as long as their teachers get.....

Pride in their physiques.....

My apologies. Other people have used similar language to imply that everyone should seek the "greater challenge" of a skiff/kite/foiler/cat etc.

That always has been one of the best aspects of the sport at junior levels imho.  I'm heartened to see that at a local level (at least) it's still the case.  There certainly is a perception that 'this squad and that system' etc would begin the filtration process of splitting off on gender lines.  

precisely.... how can you buy sh*t off the internet if you can't have it delivered to your place of work?   

we're a bucket list society.... why bother committing to a life time of mid-fleet sailing, back of the pack cycling or third team, second reserve village football when there's a whole world of sports and pastimes to dabble in.   

  so true ... I guess breadth of experience counts for something, somewhere....  OK, nowhere and nothing; not when pushing daisies and nowt but an excuse for a solicitor to steal what was once yours from your kids.  

I like mid fleet sailing, it's being at the back so far that is slightly frustrating with the new boat 

As said people seem to want instant success and sailing is a very strange sport in that sense.

Other sports I have competed in the likes of tennis, rowing there is an ability based system of competition where in reality you are competing against people which are within the same perceived ability as yourself. Rowing has a "division" type system and tennis has ratings.

In sailing you could have someone who has sailed for a year competing against sailors who are as much as professional and maybe sailed since before they went to school and have spent years in the "squads". There is the Gold/Silver/Bronze fleets in some of the bigger events, however there is lack of numbers to really make this work properly.

There seems to be an acceptance that people leave the sport when they don't see instant success. 

Sailing is a relatively difficult skill set to achieve competence in, with differing conditions, a fair bit of "theory" and allot of feel. Essentially it is like learning to drive, then expecting to race in the BTCC the following week. For newcomers in a sailing boat, there is a fair bit going on, which us more experienced sailors tend to manage subconsciously, again very much like driving (remember how fast the first time you did 60 on a dual carriage way felt like, where after a year or two it feels normal).

With this in mind, is the way we introduce people into the sport wrong? The RYA path of pushing single handers and getting everyone to helm straight off. To the point that when they come to racing, they end up sailing by themselves around at the back of the fleet with everyone dissapearing off into the distance. Having taken up sailing in my mid to late twenties, and having this happen to me in my Laser. It is a bit soul destroying and leads to the point where I question myself if I was really having fun, and only if somebody was as bad as me.

I have spent the last 5 years mainly crewing for better more experienced helms, most of whome came through that squad, coached system. In that time I have had some great close racing, some very decent results and allot of fun.

Is the older way of introducing new people to the sport, through crewing for others not a better way into the sport?

Because these guys are working back form a principal of making a foiling moth easy to foil. Having the out riggers allows you to roll the boat on top of you to the correct lift off angle without stability issues. Putting foils on the outriggers has some major structural considerations that would turn the boat into a completely different beast.

The wand position is irrelevant - it's a SMOD. As with all SMOD's - of which all have things in the wrong place, that 'thing' makes no difference because everyone else has the same.

It looks one hell of a lot better that the Fly Port-a-loo, that's for sure.

 This thing seems to go fine with wands on the trailing edge...

In fact, if we listen to the overblown rhetoric of some of the marketing hype, foilers are already a separate type. It's interesting to see what happens in other sports. In the ones I've done, the various types of kit are basically totally separate; different clubs, different events, different magazines. In some ways it doesn't seem to be a bad way to do it - it means the proponents of the earth-changing new style can take over the world without being held back by neanderthals (as they see it) and the rest can keep on doing what they love without a bunch of people biatching at them.....and they normally seem to remain the most popular branch of the sport.

It's interesting to see that in sailing, new craft that create their own breakaway movement seem to become more popular than those that try to change the establishment from within. The only problem is that so few take the latter course that there's not much of a sample to look at.

Can't agree with that.

I want a go!!

Anyhow, the F101...

I agree actually. Come on Graeme, show us your 'nads 

I am thinking the 101 foiler looks pretty slick and well made. I know f'all about sailing a foiler but it looks like something I'd have a go at. Can't be that different to an Osprey can it..... carries weight well by the look of it 

Do they give a boat weight?

Personally I think it's more a lack of anything new to discuss that hasn't already been done to death, days can go by here with no new posts, whereas most forums have several posts per hour, here we seem to be lucky to get several new posts a week.

that was sailor weight

SA Vendee coverage and forum is very good