Joining Fees
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12538
Printed Date: 07 Jul 25 at 6:30am
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Topic: Joining Fees
Posted By: Poole Pirate
Subject: Joining Fees
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 12:03pm
| With the numbers of people joining in on our sport, do you think it makes sense to have a joining fee as well as a membership fee. If your starting out in sailing and you have spent out on a boat and gear, is it just to much to be asked for a joining fee as well. A big club I know of has done away with its joining fee as the number of people wanting to join was a lot less than the number who were leaving or passing away? |
Replies:
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 12:42pm
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Many clubs have built up wealth over the years, it's not unreasonable to be expected to buy into that. Money has to come from somewhere, clubs have to strike a balance between loyal members and newcomers. The right balance probably varies case by case. I've never seen a joining fee that would put me off, except perhaps the odd club where yacht mooring rights are involved. |
Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 1:50pm
| The issue is primarily about demonstrating value for the joining fee - what does it actually mean is it purely a another source of general income or does it have a specific purpose in developing the club as an organisation and /or the facilities ... |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 2:40pm
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I'm just supposing here but is some of it to keep the riff raff out and keep the club exclusive? I have been out off by it at two clubs in my nearby area. I simply cannot afford the £300+ joining fee on top of the other expenditures for sailing. I'll stick to my small cheap club and do opens ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 2:48pm
| Joining fees are counter productive and in my view, unhelpful. I can't see how charging new members a premium helps the club grow (in these times where most clubs are actively seeking new members). Allowing new members a reduced sub when they first join to reflect the time to renewal is simple fair and equitable. I would be discouraged from joining a club if I had to pay 12 months subs for 3 months membership (I am about to join a club who's subs are fairly high but there is no joining fee and a pro rata reduction for new members joining in the second half of the year, the sub also include a berth and sailing rights). |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 2:48pm
| As I recall in the days of waiting lists and the like part of the justification was that it encouraged committed members who were there for the long haul rather than (in 21stC terms) bucket list types who dip in and out. |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 3:31pm
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If there is one thing in the world of sailing that really, and I mean really, really, angers me it is "Joining Fees" there is and never has been any justification for them, I have questioned several clubs over the years as to how they justify them and have never been satisfied with any answer, basically because you can't. They should be ditched without delay.... end of. |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 3:34pm
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We don't have a joining fee but do have a refundable deposit if you require a gate key and clubhouse access card; only required by members who want to use the Club outside of organised sailing days. I argue for a reduced fee introductory membership with access only on sailing days to give newbies time to get to "know the ropes", not taken on board so far.
edit. To Roger's post, I agree, talk of to pay for admin but it's a pretty lame one to my mind. |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 5:03pm
| I reckon we scrapped our joining fee at least 20 years ago. For many years now we have given a 50% discount for first year's membership. For those joining in the last quarter of the membership year they do not have to renew their fees for 15 months. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 6:14pm
Frankly that's not always reasonable. One club I used to be a member of had about 100 members and about £500k in freehold property, which affectively belongs to the membership. This dates back to members in the 1920's putting their hands in their pockets to buy the building. Over the years, when investment has been needed, it has come from the existing membership in the form of a levy or higher subs for a year or two. In the absence of a joining fee, it would make sense to dip out for a year when spending was needed. If you don't want to join such a club, that's fine, go start your own or find one which is not so reliant on the investment of previous generations. Unless a club is paying dividends to shareholders like some golf clubs, joining fees are just part of the income/expenditure balance and no joining fee means either less spending on facilities, or higher annual subs, particularly in some clubs where capacity is limited. |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 7:00pm
No, the argument just doesn't hold water. It's exactly the same as has been said in the past many many times to try and justify the joining fee, that it's to compensate for the efforts and investment of previous owners. In you real life example; if somebody leaves or dies from the 100 membership of your club, do you then pay them back their 1/100th share of the assets? The next generation of members come in and make their contribution to the club, both in the running of and the fabric of the club in whatever way is required at the time. Over the years I have been a member of 8 sailing clubs, including at least one Royal Yacht Club with valuable freehold, they were one of the few not to charge a joining fee. I have contributed to varying degrees at each club, mainly due to the changing circumstances of growing family, sailing clubs should be seriously thinking about increasing membership not putting barriers in the way, financial or not. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 7:32pm
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You assme that all clubs want more members. That really is not always the case. Some clubs do better by having the right number of the right sort of members. I've seen a club try too hard to get new members, resulting in a short term boom now long forgotten. Continuity, stability, commitment. Clubs will tend to be run the way they always have been, because that's the safest way. If a club can make zero joining fees and discounts work, that's great, but personally I respect the motivation behind not fiddling with a formula that's worked well for 50, 80 or 100+ years. It's the eleven grand cost of joining the RS400 fleet that's the problem.... |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 7:53pm
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Two and a half grand seems the bottom end for a 400 on Apollo Duck. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 8:06pm
Probably plus a grand for sails? To be fair I reckon £5k will get you a good club 400 and keep it supplied with sails and covers and other wear-out or breakable items for quite a few years. Unless you are heavy on masts. Two grand might get you on the water and deliver a lot of fun. Still puts my club's joining fee in the shade. |
Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 8:08pm
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Joining fees discourage people just joining when they feel like it-miss a year or just for the summer. We offer a sliding scale of membership fee depending on when in the year they join. Some penalty is needed to discourage just joining every year in August when the kids are on holiday
and then not having duties to do March-August. And probably not paying boat berth fees either...
------------- Stewart |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 9:15pm
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My club does not have a joining fee. I do not know if charging one would help, but we have not had a new member for several years who has proved capable of doing duties of any description, the majority only want to pop down to suit themselves. I believe they should be charged extra for not contributing to club, they appear to think members who do duties are employees.
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Posted By: Poole Pirate
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 9:34pm
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Could be that all members should be put on the list for duties, some clubs even rotor new members in for a couple more than the norm in the first couple of years. This will then give them a broad understanding of the running the clubs duties and gives extra skills in return which will then be useful to the club in general. My feeling is that with all else that is on offer to people in their off time we need to include rather than exclude them into our sport. |
Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 02 Oct 16 at 1:00am
| Difficult subject, no easy answer. Much as I think clubs need to encourage newbies into the sport I've seen the "bucket list" brigade that others have mentioned come and go through my club very quickly and make no contribution to the club other than their subs. I come from the "build the club" 60s/70s generation of sailors, and spent my time digging slipways, building clubhouses etc so my contribution to the club was thousands of hours of effort rather than financial. To be honest lobbing £25, £50, £100 or whatever onto a joining fee isn't ever going to compensate me for the years me and my generation spent building the club. I look around and see attendances at club races at a fraction of what they used to be, so personally I'd be more keen to see any barriers to entering the sport removed as whatever my generation did for the sport is the past not the future. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 02 Oct 16 at 7:27am
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I looked into joining a sailing club in Spain- kinda of assuming that's what you did when starting out in a new area... the €11,000 joining fee was a bit too dear, and raised questions about what the club was actually about. Admittedly they didn't then require you to sign up for the bog washing rota on dutyman, but still....
, |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 02 Oct 16 at 10:43pm
| Horses for courses. Supply and demand. And yes buying in to 'share the equity'. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 02 Oct 16 at 10:59pm
| There's only a share in the equity if the club folds (and then only if it hasn't become a CASC). The infrastructure value is (or should be reflected in) the subs. |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 7:06am
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Joining fees are part of the revenue stream for the club. No joining fee = higher subs for everyone. If a club wants more members then joining fees don't help but not all clubs are actively looking for new members. Even the wait-list isn't dead everywhere. If your nose is put out of joint by joining fees then don't join. |
Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 10:39am
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My club introduced one again to discourage members from leaving while the refurbishment/ rebuild was supposed to be happening(mostly the social members who frankly get a very cheap deal anyway) but does not apply if the join via the introductory sailing training route which is very cheap. Also it encourages people to pay there membership on time not leave it until they want to start sailing again and most of the duty rota is sorted for the first part of the year.
Not excatly a real killer at £50 and we use it as a special offer reduction at times to encourage new memebers like at the Americas cup when we were one of the local clubs on the RYA stand. ------------- Gordon Lossc |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 10:43am
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Draycote has a very good policy - the joining fee is not re-payable if you write to the office / committee informing them of your intention not to re-join. It means there's some flexibility if your situation changes and for whatever reason, want to take a season or two out of membership without there being a penalty in the future. I think they sometimes waive the joining fee for those dropping out the back end of courses too.... but don't quote me on that please, it's just something I thought I heard once!!!
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Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 1:01pm
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I know a club that has no joining fee but gives a hefty discount on your renewal every year if you pay by the end of Feb. So in my opinion a back door way of getting a joining fee.... ------------- Bonnie Lass Contender 1764 |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 3:32pm
I think that is a pretty harsh assessment, our club moved toward a prompt payment discount, which really is a late payment surcharge, after despairing with the usual suspects often paying their subs 3 or 4 months late, and delaying until they wanted to use the club at Easter. A club cannot be run effectively if you have a significant element who you don't know whether they are going to rejoin each year. Ref. The joining fee, from a sailors perspective I would do anything to encourage participation, and if having no joining fee helps achieve it then so be it, however I do see the joining fee as some protection against people who dip in and out of a club ... Again from a management perspective you are looking for a consistent stable level of membership. If most clubs are like ours, then the committee targets making a marginal profit ... If the club makes too much the committee is accused of charging too much and being elitist, if it loses money then the club is poorly managed. It therefore only takes a small movement in membership numbers to move a club from profit to loss; so I would suggest that the encouragement of paying subs on time and the use of joining fees are simply tools to assist its stability. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 12:15am
'club development' fee rebated for attendance to duties and working parties is something which has been debated before |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 8:31am
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One of the problems - and another thread really - is that generally speaking running sailing courses does not generate (m)any club members. It may tick participation boxes, but thats often the only benefit and clubs waste countless member hours flogging this horse because they have to. Members are generated by making sure the club gets first dibs on existing sailors who move into the area. Frankly if they like the water, the people and the format of club sailing they will join almost regardless as long as the figures are reasonable. |
Posted By: Tom J
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 9:11am
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As far as I can tell joining fees come from a time when there was an inherent cost of processing a new member, membership packs had to be printed and posted out, and someone had to give up a considerable amount of time. Not knocking any current membership secretaries efforts but the arrival of the computer has considerably speeded up how simply someone's details can be recorded and websites / e-mail can remove the need for posting out any relevant information.
Joining fees are off putting for new members, I have decided not to join 2 clubs in recent years as I couldn't justify the cost per sail and only joined my current one as I needed somewhere to store the boat (and that was as an existing sailor who liked the water, people and club). So if your club is booming then great but for the majority of clubs I really think these are an issue that could put people off. Someone said they were needed for topping up the coffers but if your running costs per member are x don't add an extra cost y just for some people in case x goes down, just select a better value for x. The only sensible argument I have heard against scrapping them is that it could be unfair on those who have joined in recent years. There's not an easy way round this but a phased reduction is likely to be the simplest way to go. Although saying that and having just paid them this year I'd happily see it scrapped for next year still... as far as I'm concerned it's gone anyway. I've heard some people claim it encourages loyalty but from personal experience I've moved club based on other factors such as where I was based with work rather than anything sailing related. The idea of not having to pay a joining fee if I stayed somewhere wouldn't influence bigger life decisions and so just becomes an annoyance (or a deal breaker) when I do move. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 9:36am
| I can't say joining fees are the biggest barrier for me - I'd happily join a couple of clubs to use for differing activities on offer, but the requirement to do two sets of duties is a total deal breaker. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 9:51am
You're not making yourself sound like the kind of member I'd change club policy to attract. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 10:15am
yep - I joined my club 15 years ago now when I moved out of London simply because it was a club I'd raced opens at as a kid and I knew it from being a good host venue from the uni sailing circuit - regional qualifier events and a well regarded open event. They also had class racing. It's hardly 'expensive' in real terms, although there are quite a few cheaper options it competes with.
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Posted By: Tom J
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 10:37am
When most of my weekends are spent on the open circuit the majority of my club sailing would have been evenings of which there are 20? races per year. Factor in work commitments and holidays and I was looking at maybe 10 - 12 of those, weather permitting. When the joining fee alone is adding on £10 for every Wednesday night race I could do I did start to question if that was something I wanted to spend my money on. Hopefully most clubs want members who join in with racing when they can, are happy to do their duties and get involved with other bits of the club when they can too (plus pay their regular subs too of course) so I'm not sure how you qualify to be a good enough club member for a policy change but that comment is missing my point. My point is that joining fees can make a difference to whether or not someone joins a club, most club turnouts could be improved and I am yet to hear a convincing reason to have joining fees in the first place. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 10:46am
bucket list types - you know, the super keen newbie who lasts all of two seasons before realising road biking / bouldering / saving orang-utans in Borneo are all more accessible. we might as well fleece them while we can.....
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Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 4:51pm
Double edged sword - he's out there representing the club and spreading the word that its a good place to be. I'm not seen all that much in summer - sailing anyway - at either of the clubs I'm a member of. But that doesn't mean that I'm inactive.
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 8:39pm
I see where yo uare coming from now.... Most people don't think in terms of joining just for 1 year? I have had to think about 'value per race' myself this year, due to a house move and not getting organised until half the year was gone. We joined two clubs around May and I think I will be writing off the joining fee on one of them, but it's small beer in the context of a house move. Likewise if you only expect to do 12 races, the duties become a turn off at some clubs. Sounds like the club was not ideal for you anyway? I'm not saying all clubs should have a joining fee, it's just that I think some clubs have their reasons and don't want to fiddle with a formula that seems to work OK. My personal grumble is a certain club not having any flexibility about non-members crewing, when it's completely impractical for the crew to join. E.g. he's only in the area for 3 months weekdays on a temporary contract and goes back to T'north at weekends. And he's already an RYA member and member of Class Association and at least one RYA affiliated club of his own.... You can please half of the people, half of the time.... |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 05 Oct 16 at 8:15am
No, it never cost a few hundred quid to process a new member. |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 07 Oct 16 at 3:24pm
| the joining fee is a good way to retain members, if trying another club for a season has no cost perhaps people will hop around the options |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 07 Oct 16 at 3:57pm
that sounds like a great idea .... then social groups can start to create bonds based on common goals rather than everywhere being a complete mish-mash of different boats and different wants and desires.....
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 07 Oct 16 at 6:06pm
| If you could work out how many members you retained compared to how many new members were put off by the joining fee...... |
Posted By: Poole Pirate
Date Posted: 07 Oct 16 at 6:12pm
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One thing your never rely know is how many people a club has not gained because of Joining Fees, and so your also not know if those people were just the right fit for your club. No joining fee may pull in all sorts of people and you may find some of them were not who you wanted but I would say having made someone welcome to your club your find that they will want to stay with you, by not feeling the club is after your money! The ones who do not fit or hop in and out may well be a bit of a cash cow for the club in the short time. This sailing lark is a social sport and like many other choices out there we should not expect to hold on to everybody that comes through the doors!
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Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 07 Oct 16 at 10:48pm
| How much are these joining fees? Ours are £60...... |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 09 Oct 16 at 6:37am
| They can be a few times that. |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 09 Oct 16 at 8:57am
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I've seen fees in the region of £150 - £350 ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 09 Oct 16 at 10:32am
| HISC is over 4 figure isn't it? |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 09 Oct 16 at 11:07am
Keeps out the rif-raf 
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Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 09 Oct 16 at 7:25pm
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No, HISC isn't four figures. If I recall it was about 250 when I joined and that was returnable in instalments over subsequent years provided enough races were entered. It changes though depending on whether new members are needed, and what type - youth, family, etc. See http://www.hisc.co.uk/the-club/current-fees/membership-fees/ ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 8:07am
There was a popular rumour that it used to be circa £800 after all the work on the clubhouse was done. I dont know if this is actually the case, it certainly isn't now, but thats where you would have got that from.
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 9:53am
| Yep definitely sits in the recesses of my mind somewhere 😳 |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 10:13am
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HISC is not your average sailing club. I know an awful lot of people who sail dinghies in the area, and a few HISC members. Most of the HISC members I know have weekend/holiday places on 'that island' at £250k and upwards, which makes even a 4-digit joining fee insignificant. You won't fit in there if you can't afford a new boat every other year anyway. Most of the other HISC members I know joined young and probably got a better deal. There are a dozen clubs within pushbike distance for 'normal people'. The south coast/solent sailing eco-system is not like the rest of the UK. HISC is was it is. It does a lot for top-end sailing, and it's actually possible to sail there quite a bit as a local pleb without joining. Don't knock it until you've done Fed week a few times! |
Posted By: Tom J
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 11:45am
Members who are settled in life maybe, one of the biggest risks to the sport constantly highlighted is the lack of 20 and 30 somethings sailing. These are the groups most likely to be moving around for work / social reasons completely unrelated to sailing. As a result they can't justify the cost of a joining fee over an extended period and are more likely to be punished by having to pay multiple ones simply to stay within the sport. Now I'm not naïve enough to think that this is a major factor contributing to the loss of this demographic but it is still a hurdle that could easily be removed. P.S. Surely clubs should be using incentives to retain members rather than the threat of financial punishment?? |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 11:47am
You have a very lopsided view of the 'typical' HISC demograpghic. Granted it is not an 'average' sailing club, but people travel for the facilities offered. The same is true at another south cost club where members I know travel from Bucks, Berks & NE Kent because of the sailing on offer. None of the regular sailors in the fleet that I sail in have holiday homes on the island. Almost all are local; living and / or working on the island or nearby. As for the new boat every other year - that's just total b*lls. The newest boats in the Fireball fleet are older than two years. Mine is now 13 and not the oldest by any means. At a rough guess I would put the average somewhere above 8. HISC might have had a reputation for being elitest in the past. It is certainly not true now. I'm just an ordinary Joe club sailor who struggles to get into the top half of a circuit or nationals fleet and have been welcomed by everyone there. The club is well run, with membership and joining fees set at rates that allow the wonderful facilities to be maintained and upgraded when necessary, whilst attracting the demographic the club feels is beneficial to its future success. It might be understood from the above that I'm a fan. True, and unashamed to say so! ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 11:57am
This was the reason given for retaining the joining fee at my club because they were worried that existing members would be annoyed at it being scrapped. A non argument if you ask me, put it to vote at an AGM! ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 12:06pm
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the only joining fee justifications for me would be i) if the club uses the additional funds to create berthing spaces for new members ii) and/or parking spaces to the first Anything else is just BS. I asked around about 'joining fees' and I noted a great deal of clubs at the Dinghy Show wave them to attract new members anyway (most I spoke to 2 years ago, didn't go this year) so they obviously have little, if any, fiscal significance to the clubs charging them. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 12:23pm
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Unless the joining fee is actually putting off a significant number of potential members if a club drops the joining fee then the subscriptions have to increase to balance the books. And you also have to consider whether the less committed tend to maintain membership rather than pay another joining fee.
The arguments pro and con seem quite balanced to me. Its interesting to see how many posters are really dogmatic about whether or not they are a good idea, but in a world where no-one ever gets to find out what *would* have happened, I'm not sure how they can be so certain. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 1:29pm
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HISC entry fees are at the bottom of the link up thread. You don't pay them as an under 30. At HISC in the first year you don't have any duties. You also pay 'pro-rata'. So you could say the joining fee is offset by these. If you're basing your decision on cost per race for a single season then joining fees will make it expensive. But if you're doing that calculation over 5 years it becomes a lot less significant. Clubs which are already pretty full will want to attract members who are thinking more long term, as it enable the clubs to think more long term too with their finances. It's a bit simplistic to see a joining fee, and say that as a club is asking you to hand over a wad of cash just to join, that it's elitist. The joining fees I've been asked for in sailing I feel are proportionate to a years subs, and insignificant compared to equipment / kit costs. If someone is able to spend £,000's on a boat, you can hardly say £300 joining fee is the elitist barrier keeping them out of the sport. Obviously joining or entry fees in some other sports are clearly designed to be elitist (£10,000) and I would hate that to become the case in sailing. I live on Hayling now, but was in Southampton when I joined. We joined because it had the cheapest subs, but more because you have sheltered launching at all tidal heights and the option of open or sheltered sailing areas. For the record we've not bought a boat since we joined 8 years ago :)
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Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 1:46pm
Completely agree, the only way to know for sure, would be to drop the joining fee and measure the before & after |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 2:03pm
And that wouldn't work eithrt because the sample is statistically insignificant 
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 10 Oct 16 at 6:05pm
I wasn't knocking HISC. I decided not to join, but that was for my own reasons. I'm sure my view of the demographic is lopsided, but that's because I happen to know a not-statistacally-random sample of members there. |
Posted By: gbr940
Date Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 7:48am
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Don't want to pay the joining fee...then go somewhere else.
As it's been mentioned - the fee is part of the clubs revenue stream which otherwise would increase further the current members fees. We've all paid it and isn't an issue, and personally feel like it was a "buy in" to the longer term investment in the club. We have a joining fee which if you join in the last half of the sailing year is waivered...but to be honest, people still want to join at the beginning of the year and happy to pay it without comment. ------------- RS400 GBR1321 |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 10:32am
Absolute nonsense. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 12:06pm
That's the impression you get as a member of other local clubs. To some extent it's borne out by a scan of their results. More shiny new aeros racing than lasers. A lot of Solo's with fairly new numbers Average Furball sail no something over 15000 etc. Etc. I wasn't intending to be negative about this, it's just the way it is. Some of these people are my friends, equally I know people who race much more expensive things than a new Merlin. Personally I choose not to be a member there for reasons other than the cost. I don't actually like it as a place to race, and I dislike the drive from here to the club. There is a significant exception and that's the fair number of members there who are 'in the trade'. |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 1:05pm
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It isn't "the way it is". More Aeros than Lasers, duh, it isn't a Laser club. I'm a HISC member, have been for quite a few years and possibly have a clue what proportion of members buy a new boat every couple of years. |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 1:17pm
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From the Fireball Assoc fleet records: http://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/clubs/club_detail.php?club_id=7 The days of 100's of new 'balls being built each year are behind us, sadly. As an example, 15111 is now over 3 years old. The dearth of L*sers shows more about their fading appeal than anything else. And this is quite apart from the higher numbers of L*sers not far along the coast. Do you have any data on what - if anything - was sold to purchase said Aeros? If I wanted to race a Solo then why would I go anywhere else? Chances are I would be racing PY rather than fleet, so people go where the fleet is. The lower than average age - perhaps - of some of the fleets might mean that the owners are a bit more serious / committed than the bulk of the dinghy sailing population. Please enlighten us: Where do you race? What is it about HISC / Chichester Harbour you dislike? ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 1:34pm
All sorts. Quite a few making the standard move from 2-hander to single hander due to the perennial crew problem. But I think there's around 15 Aeros at HISC. IIRC HISC has a couple of thousand members. It's not exactly the dominant activity in the club. HISC has dinghy members, keelboat members, cruising members, a good contingent of windsurfing members and quite a lot of people who no longer sail at all but like to use the club. The proportion who are dinghy sailors, racing regularly and willing and able to change their boat frequently is a small, small proportion of the total membership. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 2:00pm
I dislike the tidal nature of Chi Harbour, the bar and shallow water outside. IMHO Shoreham is much nicer sailing on a good day, but that's not my home club either. There is nothing I dislike about HISC in itself (apart from being a pain to drive to considering its' actually so close!), I'm just stating that its demographic is not that of the typical 'locals' club and that most of its members are sufficiently affluent that they are unlikely to be put off by the joining fee. As you say thse people are committed and willing to stump up the cost of new aero, which is probably less than the depreciation on a lot of cars anyway. Personally I could afford it if I really wanted to, but TBH I lack the health/youth/fitness/talent to get that much value out of dinghies. One size does not fit all! Anyone who doesn't fit in with thinking the HISC joining fee is reasonable in the context of HISC has plenty of choice. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 4:39pm
The aero is well down the list of classes at HISC. It can hardly be used as an example of anything, especially being a new class anyway. I'm only aware of a couple of new boats in the rs200 fleet this year, of 68 boats. I'd say the proportion of new boats is lower at HISC than any other club I have been a member of. However, you see less old wrecks, probably because if you're going to make the effort to drive all the way to sandy point for some close class racing, you want to keep your boat in competitive shape. That doesn't mean buying a new boat every year, but it does mean not letting it decay. RS200 sprints this weekend, average age of the boat must be over 10 years. http://www.hisc.co.uk/media/67603/rs200_sprint_15102016.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.hisc.co.uk/media/67603/rs200_sprint_15102016.htm Saying you won't fit in at HISC unless you're buying new boats, and linking that to the joining fee is a bit harsh! |