Travellers
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12533
Printed Date: 07 Jul 25 at 3:30am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Travellers
Posted By: iGRF
Subject: Travellers
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 1:56pm
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It was interesting this weekend just gone to travel the breath of the country from the golden gateway down here in Kent all the way to llanelli in Wales, and not to see a single dinghy and trailer either way, got to be a first, i don't think I've ever done a trip like that without at least once craning my neck to see what boat was being hauled along the road in front.
A sign of the times or just no events going on anywhere along the m20-25-4 corridor, nobody out on Burfield either. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Replies:
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 2:06pm
| Southampton Boat Show mate..... the only people travelling to events these days are pros, semi pros or industry employees, and they'd have all been down there telling each other what a dynamic future dinghy sailing has. Just before secretly slipping a CV to the folks on the Marine Resources stand.... |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 2:10pm
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Would that have made a difference? SBS is a bit parochial a few at the battle of the classes must have come from somewhere, so nothing going on anywhere in the south and west, not that I'd expect to see everyone but you normally see some boats being trailed and there were loads of congestion both ways to study.
Mind you I can see why nobody wants to travel these days, 6 hours for a journey that should take 4. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 2:20pm
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My last coastal dash turned out to be 5 hours to get home from Hillhead.... + the 2.5 hours to get there at first light, I honestly came away thinking it was a total waste of a day. I have pretty much not bothered since, sailing locally and I'm in the process of flogging all my 'small kit'. Bank Holiday weekends have been a total road nightmare too this year.... I even aborted a trip to Devon for some paddle boarding/windsurfing when I was only 20 miles down the M5 from Evesham... that'd taken 2 hours. It's nice to see other places, but when you're short on free time, I'm currently of the opinion it's better spent actually on the water where home is more easily accessible after you've filled your boots.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 3:28pm
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M5 always good for a trailer or 2. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 4:03pm
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Turnturtle. +1! if the total time spent travelling to and from the event, plus the usual faff about time
exceeds the time spent afloat then you really have to question why you're bothering. There was a great event being held recently down in the sun-kissed deep south west. But it's a 550 miles round trip. 60+ litres of fuel, time, accommodation.... then those that travelled lost 50% of the racing because there wasn't any wind. For anyone who has a reasonable alternative of decent racing locally, you can see the question "why" being asked big time!
------------- Dougal H |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 5:04pm
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I've got to say I didn't see that many sailing clubs either, they must be there but in some wonderful maritime locations along that South Wales coast, there didn't seem to be that many.
I was going to check out a new kitesurf club opening up in what must be the best region I've come across for kiting, but that's not to say it could equally be used for dinghies although I guess it's a tad tidal and when it's gone it's a long way gone. You don't get many of these though, new sailing clubs opening. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: pompeysailor
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 5:05pm
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There must be something in the fact that horse owners happily transport their horse 30-40 minutes for a 10 minute competition, while boat owners cant travel 1-2 hours for 3-4 hours afloat... Maybe sailing clubs need to organise monthly open events to attact local travelling sailors rather than just single Class open meetings once per year?.. ------------- Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145 |
Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 5:16pm
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We're the complete opposite - about 90% of my racing is away from my home club, be it Olympic Rankers, Finn Opens, Nationals, Fed Week etc. We love the travel, the camping and it means we get quality time together, both on and off the water. The class racing is of the highest standard and the venues we go to vary from the huge and 'professional' to the small and friendly. ------------- |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 5:33pm
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Well yes exactly 'scooter. It's all in your own head as to if it's a "great weekend in good company" or "not worth my time". One man's meat is another man's poison. I know a chap who travels his kids all over to cycle meetings, real family exped's camper van dog n all, bloke works abroad most of the week as well. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 6:34pm
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Saw loads of horse boxes, bikes and cars on trailers, kayaks, surfboards,all manner of folk off eventing, but no dinghies.
We'd rented an RV for the weekend and were considering buying one, which would open up us all doing a few sailing events in future as well as the kite demo's, clubs with dog friendly policies of course. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 8:08pm
Yes, lot's of the fun for us this weekend was the pseudo-camping (YHA Bell Tent) as a family. And you are so right.....
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Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 8:10pm
Well lot's of the clubs and lot's of the young sailors were at the RYA Zone Champs. That will also have affected some of the adult sailors (I know it did me!). And there was a forecast that made sailing doubtful at many western venues.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 8:26pm
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I made 2 whole events this year away from home. One by myself, one with the whole family. Enjoyed them both, but currently wouldn't want to do many more, as weekends are pretty busy. What I like are events that offer something which I can't get at home, either in terms of the sailing, location or company. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Gfinch
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 8:35pm
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Saw a topper on a roof in the centre of Cambridge but nothing else along the A14....however this Saturday expect this to change with the Laser & Solo open at the Royal Harwich Yacht Club.... ------------- 3513, 3551 - National 12 136069 - Laser 32541 - Mirror 4501 - Laser 4000 |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 8:53pm
| For you guys where sailing is a family activity rather than 'that selfish f**king pursuit, I'd prefer an affair, at least I could compete' I can generally see why travelling works to enjoy the diversity of different waters. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 27 Sep 16 at 9:09pm
| It was forecast stupidly windy where I was, but around start time it was actually fine. 30 minutes later a proper squall came through, so our wimp-out was justified. |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 6:44am
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Many of us who travel leave in our camper vans on Friday morning for a weekend event to avoid the traffic and have time to rig, relax etc. and the events start about 11a.m. so if you were travelling on a Saturday, we'd all have been sailing not driving.
We've now vowed to never travel the M5/M6 north on a summer Friday again after a six hour trip to Scotland took 11 hours, so it'll be a Thursday departure for that trip in future - and we have a reputation for always being late! |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 9:19am
sounds great..... fridays off would be perfect for time / travel heavy sports!!!
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 9:42am
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It was Friday out Sunday back does anybody travel on a Saturday these days, I think the thursday suggestion about calls it, may get longer 'blue' periods on Google navigator.. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 10:08am
| saturday early doors is usually OK.... it's the trip back in the later afternoon/early evening which is the cow. There's been a nasty accident on the southbound (people who didn't get up early enough and are frustrated), then rubberneckers northbound bump, grind and submit false claims of whiplash that's the issue. Sunday PM travelling back is just a no - no..... I'd hate to think what it's like for you lot with the M25 to add in to the mix. |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 11:23am
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The topper in Cambridge will have been going to the zone champs at Grafham - the place was rammed with Oppies, toppers, lasers, cadets. But I saw a couple of other dinghies on the A14. The solo open at Hunts was well attended considering the forecast. This weekend we're expecting more than a handful of visiting moths and Lightnings. I would have gone to an open this weekend but for the club's 'no dogs' policy - that's always a real bummer. I usually see a few dinghies on the A14 on my way to work on a Sunday morning, but that will be because it leads towards Grafham, Rutland, Pitsford and all the East coast clubs. Lots going on over here, and you can always tell when something major is happening ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 12:13pm
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managed a one day wonder this sunday just gone for battle of the classes in the N18, out of essex at half seven for a 10am meet up at SWAC, by the time we packed the boats away (including the one on the show stand) i got home at just after 10pm, worth every second to sail with a couple of good friends i rarely get to see these days. M25 and A3 played nice too so i count myself very lucky. This weekends an easier affair as its the mustos at Stone which is a 15 minute drive. ------------- https://skiff-media.teemill.com/" rel="nofollow - T-SHIRTS https://www.photo4me.com/profile/23908/" rel="nofollow - PRINTS |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 1:16pm
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I am just about to move from a club with a no dogs policy to a dog friendly club. However, the no dogs thing is, I suspect, a product of them sailing on a drinking water reservoir and United Utilities requiring such a rule be enforced. There are no dogs allowed on the footpaths surrounding the lake either.
I travel to Anglesey two or three weekends a month during the season, leaving on Sat evening and returning Monday evening 2:10mins. But, it's usually not too bad up here in bandit country. Except the M60 at teatime
 took me over an hour to travel 14 miles.... will travel to the new club for Wed night racing late arvo in future..... |
Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 7:18pm
| Interested to hear what motivates people to travel away from their home clubs these days. For a few years now, my own motivation has been declining: a mix of cost/time/effort, and the fact that I can sail on a decent stretch of water 15 mins from home, with decent competition, and spend time with my mates in the bar afterwards. The latter has become increasingly attractive over the years. Although I do miss travelling to away events its just become easier to sail at home. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 7:38pm
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Getting out and sailing against different people in a different place improved my sailing no end. Unless you are lucky enough to have several boats of the same class who you can learn from at your home club, doing a few opens is the best way to raise your game. With the exception of coaching events that is! But these days I realise I'm probably not going to get much better, so I'm only interested in events at places I like. |
Posted By: andy h
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 7:41pm
In my case variety. Chew Valley Lake is great, but week in, week out, it's still Chew Valley Lake and you keep reaching the edge. Plus travelling is the only way I'll ever see another Europe to race against. Sum total of my travelling this year has been Hayling and Lymington for RS400s, Hamble for yachts and Dalgety Bay for Europes (boy, that journey hurts). In previous years I've done a lot more, but I'm happier with the mix of regular club racing and open events I've committed to this year. Much less knackered and more time for family life! ------------- Europe AUS53 & FF 3615 National 12 3344, Europe 397 and Mirror 53962 all gone with regret |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 28 Sep 16 at 8:30pm
| Very much in that same place as RS400atC @7.38. |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 6:04am
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Strangely most sailors will not improve by sitting at home moaning about the traffic and cost etc of attending events. Just trying to do a few events each year would help most of us hugely. If you don't like the 'Open' type competition and are comfortable sailing at your home clubs then don't go. I have done half a dozen or so events this year and not had any shocking journeys. Friends in Ozz will drive 4 hrs plus to meet others sailors just to practise with similar dinghies. We are actually very lucky in the UK having so many varied sailing waters and huge numbers of clubs within relatively short drives. |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 11:36am
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Travelling is a lofty aim these days; two kids, no time in the week to go to the club and pack the boat up (OK there are exceptions) and family obligations at the weekend means open meetings need months of pre-planning and usually involve a very, very early start and late return. It's 2-3 times max per year, 2 last year, this year I am still optimistic about getting a second trip in! The 40mins-1hr of packing the boat up and un-packing at the other end (if I want to sail the weekend after) adds an unwelcome flourish to some hours spent closely inspecting the western M25 and/or M4 and, when the roads are moving, the totally s**t middle lane driving that dominates on the weekend in the south of England (so you're either hemmed in to the inside lane or unable to do anything but join them with a boat on the back). Added to that, I freely admit, I am much more choosy about weather conditions these days and have abandoned multiple trips over the last ~4-5 years due to bad forecasts; bad for me being sub F3 conditions. If I'm going to end up folded into the bottom of a boat staring up at the burgee wondering "why?".. I may as well do that 15 mins from my house, than drive 3-4 hours (or more) in a day and go through the pre and post routine. That is probably age and the fact I've done it too many times to mention in the past. Its a shame because all the positive comments about opens and sailing with others on unfamiliar bits of water are all 101% true and most of the time I really enjoy the sailing and off-water banter/beer, but it's some years since I went somewhere completely new. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 11:59am
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^ that plus I read event reports now and no longer harbour a foreboding sense of FOMO...... even for the 'aspirational classes' I've previously admired, still do I guess. Perhaps it's seeing the same names time and again which just adds to that sense that travelling to opens and championships is for a different class of sailor; one who seems to have an awful lot more time and dedication than I have. I'd call them class stalwarts but that's strangely pejorative, when in reality I admire them for keeping it going as a lifestyle as much as a sport/pastime. |
Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 12:10pm
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I cannot quite see what has really changed 'travel wise' in the last 40+ years ! Cars are better, believe it or not roads are as well and traffic jams are very far from a new thing. Even the more widespread use of combi's today helps etc etc. A significant number never travelled in days gone past ... nothing new in that either. Also 'good' crews always travelled more than most - part of the attraction was to see if you could improve against them. Perhaps dropping the social media, web weather forecasts and smart phones and simply doing it is the only way. That's right - get off the forum/phone etc, stop persuading yourself the forecast does not suit you, pack the boat instead and do yourself some good by just getting involved and meeting up with more 'real' people. The traffic will not be as bad as you think, nor the weather as unsuited - and who knows you might enjoy it as well. |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 12:13pm
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Yes
Just go sailing The same names are there and doing well because they go to these events |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 12:14pm
| I think it's interesting that the same few names turn up at the top of the results for several classes Nationals each year and one wonders if they have any time left for club racing? Back in my day we'd have called it 'pot hunting'. I guess these are the 'professional' dinghy sailors, working in the industry and the open meeting circuit is where they promote their business? |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 12:22pm
Pandora's box?
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 12:23pm
pot hunting - haha - haven't heard that in years! Meant something different to me though, it was like entering the Silver fleet when you were solid mid-fleet Gold sailor.... if that makes sense?
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 12:44pm
Huh? Which planet are you driving on then? East European TIR's sideswiping you, or just ploughing up the back of the near side lane watching their movies and dozing off. And ten times the traffic volume of 40 years ago, was there even a mass car park called the M25 back then? I recall trailing boats through that Lunnon and up the commercial road following Hatfield and the North, or into the Kingston by pass to reach the M4. Yes it's changed for a while it got quite good, now? It's full up. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 12:46pm
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double post ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 12:55pm
I took it to mean that but also going to as many prestigious events a possible to get a crack at the maximum amount of silverware. Always smacked as a little disloyal to 'your' chosen class to me. But I played in bands back then (and still do) and it used to be unheard of to be in two different bands (outside of the pro scene anyway) and 'your' band was like a marriage "'till deaf do you part" :). Nowadays being in two or three bands is commonplace (I'm in a duo, a trio and a five piece band) as is sailing two or three different boats.
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 1:05pm
| Dinghy monogamy is overrated.... |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 1:44pm
| So is musical monogamy, I'm also putting a Gypsy Jazz band together :) |
Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 2:02pm
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M25 GRF ? A modern luxury me laddie ... was not even there 40 years ago (even if chaos and delays while traversing Kent already was....). I suppose yet another 'good old days' non-realistic romantic memory of 'the open roads' and a pint of warm beer for 1/6 etc ... I bet yours was a pint of 'brown and bitter' as well - was very popular in some parts of the county I'm told ...  |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 2:27pm
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When I was in my 20s I thought nothing of driving 300 mles in a weekend for any reason. Not so keen now I'm older. I think the dinghy demographic is generally older which may be the problem. Most of us are no longer young wannabes who think we can be as good as the top guys, we just do what we think we'll enjoy. Cars are better generally but how many 19 year olds can afford to insure a car that will pull a double trailer like mine would? |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 3:57pm
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I believe in the boom time of dinghy racing in the 60's and 70's, and in a more chaste society the success of some classes that enjoyed competitive male female combinations thrived with overnight away open meetings ... in a more open minded times these fringe benefits may be no longer so important to the traveller. It is ironic that the same generation is now more concerned about which clubs welcome dogs! ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: bustinben
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 4:07pm
No is the answer - I had to give up sailing until I was making good money after uni!
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 4:39pm
same here - the old boy alumni stuff kept me afloat for a couple of seasons still team racing and drinking lots, but the Monday mornings were hell compared to dossing at Uni! Then I managed to scrape enough together for a half decent Laser.... did 6 years with it until I got distracted with other options. Christ knows how today's kids do it - their level of debt is astonishing compared to when I went through the system.
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 7:58pm
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When I left uni, I made myself broke by buying a house. I had some cheap old wrecks of dinghies but also got into crewing yachts and keelboats.I think if I'd taken my first 505 to an open I'd have been laughed at, if I could have found the entry fee. I remember one year 505 insurance was more than my car insurance! |
Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 10:35pm
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In answer to Sam's earlier question: I sail on a pond, but miss sailing on the sea which I grew up on, so I travel to sea events. Even better if they are summer sea regattas as part of a holiday.
Doing different stuff is good too. My quirkiest race this year was a "village regatta" near Falmouth which was round the cans both up river and in down open water. The very mixed handicap fleet included anything from RS400s to Solos with various 20-30 foot cruisers and even a Mirror 16. |
Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 29 Sep 16 at 11:35pm
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The point about age is relevant. I still feel, and am made to feel like one of the young kids at my home club and I'm 40 next year!!!! The boom time was the 5 years after uni. Good salary, decent car, RS fleet in its prime with events every fortnight. I put almost 100k miles on the car just going to sailing events. It was basically a 5 year extension of uni sailing p**s ups.
When I look at the scene today, the 20-25yr olds with reasonable jobs have enough cash to play the game but the social scene has dissapeared as the bulk of us have aged and settled down for a quieter life. With no one organising any social sailing that is attractive to the youngsters and given they don't want to organise anything themselves it's not a big surprise. Meanwhile the rest of us will mainly sail at our home clubs with a few opens during the year where a good night is measured by how many types of boutique ale we sampled. ------------- OK 2129 RS200 411 |
Posted By: bustinben
Date Posted: 30 Sep 16 at 10:54am
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Perhaps the problem has nothing to do with the sport and all to do with this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37508968" rel="nofollow - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37508968 I'm pretty sure it's proportionally worse for people in their 20's and in their late teens as well! |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 30 Sep 16 at 11:40am
Brown and Bitter? Ugh who do you think I was? Who drank Brown and Bitter? Brown and Mild until I discovered that new fangled imported Lager called Heinken which you could safely drink 2 & 1/2pints of and negotiate the Maidstone bypass towing a trailer, making sure your mate didn't unhitch it at the lights for you... ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 30 Sep 16 at 11:41am
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Crumbs - its depressing reading all these negative posts about the cost of sailing events, traffic and how much better it used to be etc etc etc
There are still 1000s of people each weekend happily travelling around doing lots of events. Some share travel, some camp, some stay with members from the home club and some go to lovely hotels. If you are worried about traffic you get up early (just like you do for work). Nothing has changed. There are countless excuses for not travelling - I've used them all at times but they are simply that much of the time - excuses. Granted - if you live miles from anywhere its harder but that's the price you pay I guess. Lots of classes do 1 day events - these can be great - up to 4 races a day and just some fuel. I don't know anyone who, hand on heart, says that they cant do any events for traffic or cost ? Perhaps the truth is that we all have lots of other things to do these days if we chose ? I |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 30 Sep 16 at 3:56pm
traffic and cost are compound effects on the primary one.... less time. Why use your limited spare time to sit in traffic, or pay for sailing somewhere away from your home club when windguru is looking iffy.
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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 30 Sep 16 at 4:34pm
Because weather forecasters are, far more often than not, blinkin' useless, particularly when it comes to the wind. ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 30 Sep 16 at 6:59pm
| At least classes like the Solo have taken measures to cancel events on rubbish forecasts rather than waste people's time |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 30 Sep 16 at 7:10pm
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The wind forecasters give yet another reason not to travel - too much wind, too little, not my condition etc etcetera etc
And regularly these forecasts are totally wrong If you have such limited time then you may not travel to events anyway ? It's simple - those without time, money etc can't travel and most of the others simply don't want to |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 30 Sep 16 at 7:25pm
there were a lot of 18-30 year olds as well as 30+ at the cycle sportive I did last weekend, a mate is doing the south downs 100 this weekend and says it's almost full. Many bikes are now 'dinghy money' so I guess this demographic is getting its kicks elsewhere these days? |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 12:39am
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They certainly are. However, re the comparative cost; I dunno about the specific situation at such events in your neck of the woods, but overall only a minute percentage of bikes seem to be "dinghy money" according to the trade reports. The most popular bike in my club's track events is worth about the same as a Laser mainsail, complete. A quick check on our major national bike sales website shows that about 98% of new racing/road bikes are cheaper than a new Laser. Not a single new road bike for sale in the country is even close to being in the region of an expensive singlehanded dinghy. ------------- sailcraftblog.wordpress.com The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 8:47am
| Chris is right IMO, price is not the reason people go cycling instead of dinghy sailing. Not many bikes cost new RS400 money, the most expensive Carbon road bikes Evans sell are under £10k and an RS400 is over £13k with covers and combo trailer. And decent carbon road bikes (a sort of RS400 equivalent) with a not quite top of the range group set (Shimano 105) start from £1400 and are good enough for all but the most serious riders. You will struggle to buy a competitive (at open meeting level) boat in the popular classes for that (Ok, maybe a Topper ;)). |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 10:07am
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I think it's all to do with the demographic. Age has a lot to do with it. I'm 54 I drive from south Devon to Milton Keynes three times a year for a five hour meeting. In the past it has been fun and a change, staying overnight and seeing colleagues. My car is comfortable and my wife loves to drive me all the way so no excuses and I get paid for it. However this is the last year we will be doing it. We are all in our 50s to mid/late 60s and have decided to do it all via video conferencing. So end of an era. When I was younger the drive was an adventure and a treat now for some reason it's not the same and I think age and a sense of deja vue are the factors that make me less likely to do trips away and even less likely to go with a boat than before.
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Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 10:28am
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Blimey this is a dreary negative thread ! The vast majority NEVER travelled in the distant past either and presumably had all sorts of reasons then as well. The real contrast is that they did not have access to 'social' media then to justify their non-involvement ... what on earth is the point guys ? If other folks dont want to travel - absolutely fine in my book.... but the rest of us are not exactly busting to know all about it. The sailjuice series kickes off in a few weeks and has bumper numbers who do somehow manage to justify their involvement .. and travel. It suggests quite a lot do get their kicks by getting involved as well.... and the numbers continue to rise year on year. Perhaps the organisers ARE doing something right there. There has also always been a turnover in the sport - some come in and some leave. This is not unhealthy either. So if say bikes grab you more at the moment go off and just do it .. you can come back into sailing anytime you want .. or it is even possible to do both. Just don't wallow in tired old self-justifications on the keyboard - go out and find some other activity that you can justify and enjoy.... B****r all this for now - I'm off sailing .... |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 11:10am
There's definitely a tendency in some places to mistake "I'm no longer in a place where I enjoy this" with "this is crap and you should all stop doing it". Pretty silly really, but unfortunate if it results in a tide of negativity which has adverse effects on other people. For example, I've got fed up with salt water, and all the consequences of which I don't like (and don't propose to list), and only sail inland at the moment, but that's something 'wrong' with me, not something that's wrong with sea sailing! |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 11:26am
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Its now a pointless thread - people who don't want to travel/ cant be bothered etc saying how difficult etc it is and justifying to themselves why they dont
Yes sometime going to events is a bit difficult compared to sailing at your own club but thats like most things in life - its not always easy. Personally I love packing up the boat, getting up early and heading off |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 11:57am
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Actually, I think it's far from dreary, it provides a framework to understand the reasons why people who previously travelled for events do so less and less now. It's not, in my case, really a lack of desire to sail other venues- it's a compound of factors that mean that the value proposition isn't significantly greater over club racing (on the whole) to justify the precious free time needed to even attend. Turn it on it's head.... club racing must be alright to keep dragging folks back, especially when you consider some of the (gawd awful) boats we choose to do it in compared to what could be bought on the open market and then raced under an RYA burgee.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 12:08pm
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Yes it would be much better having a forum where nothing gets discussed positive or negative and you can all go on thinking everything is well in your world of corrupt handicaps, class favoritism, dreary old 1950's boats being warmed over because if anything new comes along it'll get killed immediately with a crap handicap. So as your class attendances dwindle and only the big handicap events expand because there is nothing else left that is perceived as going somewhere and they are dominated by 'fixed' banditry bent on preserving the status quo.
Much better not to talk about it. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Poole Pirate
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 12:19pm
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I feel that dinghy sailing is part of the many things and sports on offer so we have to compete with them. At my club, weekday/evening sailing is the big thing and weekends have a differing show of people. Its is looking more like a fix for many during the week with people turning up straight from work and getting a race fix, pint and meal and then home. The weekend also uses those same people to help a very well turned out junior section which needs many adult hands to run it.So with all that going on, when asked why people do not travel they say the family has lots on at the weekends and so it not possible. Or, the cost of fuel is also a large factor for some as well as all the other stuff they do with their families. Opens away improves your sailing, it did mine but with less people doing it the meetings are getting smaller so the intensive is reducing. Sailing is changing and so is the world, its just how it is!
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 12:42pm
But are the meetings getting smaller? Or at least smaller in proportion? Its inevitable that people stop going to open events as their lives change, but hopefully they are replaced with others. Its also inevitable that individual classes rise and fall in popularity. But unless you have real recorded data across a wide range of classes you can't make any generalisations. I haven't done an analysis, but I'm not sure that my clubs opens are getting less popular overall, but the numbers rise and fall for individual classes every year. |
Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 2:23pm
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Gordon Bennet etc - If some don't want to travel or even sail then guys just leave it and move on to something you do like ... All the rest is repeating the bl**ding obvious unless you have any sort of proposed solution to reversing your own observations and reasons for ‘not doing much at all’. Sweeping personal generalizations masquerading as ‘analysis’ does not usefully ‘inform’ anyone about much, or change anything. It is the weekend - Go sailing … Go cycling … go fly a kite .. or even
go to B&Q if you must .. do whatever – just try a bit of positivity and with it do
try to enjoy it. This thread is deceased, dead, ‘lying down sleeping ‘ … please surely by now |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 3:47pm
Liking this Cirrus bloke's thinking.  Now home from Club with my boat on trailer for an event next weekend, only second time this year but that's my choice, simple as, no excuses or complicated value equations. One thing I do know is I see plenty of horse boxes and trailers on the road around these parts. From personal experience I can say even though a horse costs a lot more to run than a push bike not all of them by any means will be owned by wealthy toffs, I guess they just really want to................... |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 6:54pm
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Spent today introducing 4 people to sailing. No wind, a thunderstorm, pouring rain at times, yet all 4 came off the water having enjoyed themselves. Hoping for better weather tomorrow! So, for every jaded person on here, I hope there are 4 enthusiastic people starting out. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 7:48pm
You could have had some of our wind, I was out in the Laser wishing for lulls to coincide with me reaching the gybe mark. I have a lot to learn with Lasers! Big waves down one of the reaches, a great day and I think each lap was more distance in the boat than the walk to the club. The water was even warm, but I got away without a swim. A few near misses including stuffing the bow a long way into the back of a wave. Driving to another club tomorrow with the 400, forecast is light and sunny. A radical change of boat is one cure for jaded. |
Posted By: E.J.
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 9:39pm
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Its interesting to hear about sailors that prefer not to travel but I feel that there is a benefit of travelling that has not been expressed. Beyond the opportunity to experience the beauty and variety that British Isles has to offer in often quite exclusive locations unavailable to non sailors, you are going to sail against the best competition in your chosen class, this is why I travel; if I believe this is a sport and my competitive nature wants to be the best, there is no way I can kid myself that I am progressing if stay at my club. A race win at my club is great fun but I value a top 10 at an open so much more. Its the difference between practicing and doing it for real. ------------- |
Posted By: Poole Pirate
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 9:49pm
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I am sorry that my contribution was seen as Bl...dy Dreary, as Turtle saw it I was contributing with how I see things in my little world and not making wild generalizations but just personal wild generalizations! Its a pity to me that the open meeting circuit that I enjoyed for so long is a shadow of its forma self but every now and then a big meeting comes alone like a championship that fuels the fleet again to get together and have a jolly good time. This still does not change the fact that the circuit is getting smaller and No !, I unfortunately do not know how it can be arrested, do you? Being the New Boy, I await my fate at the hands of the All Knowing!
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Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 10:18pm
Well said. I also find the notion that an Open you attend with no, or limited sailing is somehow wasted sad. Frankly some of the best weekends are the ones where you lose a day to no or too much and either spend your time in the bar or the galley talking rubbish with a great bunch of like minded folk.
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 01 Oct 16 at 11:53pm
Indeed sir, the fact you were prepared to even comment, albeit 'honestly' and free from a sandy neck, is something I personally saw as positive!!! |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 02 Oct 16 at 12:03am
I like your attitude to th skunked eeekend that turns into a good craic.... but isn't that more the result of the unexpected, rather than knowingly travelling on a sh*te forecast with a meagre pre entry list already posted on sail racer? |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 02 Oct 16 at 10:45pm
Nope - the sailing weekend away is planned months out. And then pretty much only illness stops it from happening.
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 02 Oct 16 at 11:00pm
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+1 |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 6:43am
+1 3 days in Wales a few years ago without even unpacking the boat was still a great weekend with friends. However we have invested in the van (a d-i-y conversion Transit) for accommodation so the costs are minimal. For those who camp or B&B it can be either cold/wet or expensive so I can see the lack of appeal. We had planned to take a boat away this weekend for some casual sailing at Roadford but the dire forecast put us off packing up and trailing. However we went away for the weekend anyway and had a lovely relax just chatting to friends there and soaking up the rays. Helped one hook up a Flying Fifteen to his Mini - now there's an incongruity! |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 7:11am
Yet here you are reading it. Why's that then? |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 9:29am
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Travelling very much depends on the class. Over the various years I sailed Lasers I travelled once with it and that was not to a Laser Open but to a local inter club regatta. When I had a Blaze and with the D-Zero I have travelled far more. My travelling over the last 2 years with the D-Zero outweighs all the travelling I have done previously added together. The testament to the D-Zero fleet (in my eyes) is the fact that my local club (a small gravel pit) hosted an open for the class and we had plenty of travellers despite a dire forecast. Some from the south cost and some from north yorks. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 9:40am
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Sarge- I'm guessing the main difference for you guys is that it's something you choose to do as family, I wouldn't let a poor forecast stop my family and I doing the things we plan to do either. We're skiing/snowboarding twice this year.... there's as much a risk of a white-out as there is of being skunked by the wind on a sailing weekend. Other than a cursory glance at the forecast the day before to check whether it's worth packing a powder board or an extra layer or two, it certainly won't change our plans to go if the snow reports are lame. I wonder what the split really is between those whom sailing is an individual sport rather than a family sport/activity? For me, I simply wouldn't give up time with my family to spend it in a car going somewhere with a dodgy forecast that might mean no sailing.... that really is a waste of my time and unnecessary complication. So whilst the wind guru effect gets a slating, it has also saved me from those awkward conversations when you come from a weekend away where you barely sailed. I could take them with me, but on the odd occasion I have done, my wife always feels she'd rather have stayed at home doing something with the kids and friends than sit around a steamy, smelly wet bar somewhere miles from what she describes as 'civilisation'. I understand fully- and pretty much have the same feelings sat around various stable yards with their dirty coffee cups and boring, no seriously boring, horsey talk. I go when the kids are involved, but if it's just something she's doing, then I tend to do something else with the kids instead.
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Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 10:41am
Whereas I have cancelled a ski holiday when the snow reports were terrible. That wasn't a family trip, which perhaps confirms your point. However in general most people can't cancel a ski trip without losing a lot of money. As it happened on that occasion it didn't cost me to cancel. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 11:49am
indeed - it does confirm. I have a third trip with mates planned for mid-Jan. If the snow reports are awful, which is highly unlikely I hope, we will roll the flight bookings into EasyJet credit (admin fee loss only) and we won't firm up the accommodation. There may be a few other costs which I haven't though about, but in the main, we'd cancel / postpone rather than just have a 4 day bender in mountain bars. I guess you find other things to do if it's family or couple time without the sense of frustration.... and then a change of scene can enough to make it fun, even if the primary activity doesn't materialise.
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 03 Oct 16 at 7:01pm
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Throwing a theory into this, NOT, a judgement I add. Comparisons with multiple skiing trips prompt me to ask a question of the often quoted reasons for not travelling, not enough spare time/money. Could it be that more spare time/money than in past times has given the opportunity to pursue multiple interests resulting in a dilution of commitment to any one particular activity. I draw a light hearted analogy to cash rich celebrities having multiple relationships/marriages compared to the average Joe or Josephine. "Breaking up due to challenging lifestyles" could possibly read, breaking up because we can afford to, when change and choice is easy where is the reason to stick at something? |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 12:18am
Free time at weekends I guess.... but almost certainly dilution when it comes to booked days off for holidays that might otherwise be Monday and Friday travel days for sailing events. The latter bit re celebs is a little off base though as the more recent adventures into the mountains and snow come about from finding something active that we all enjoy together. Cycling is the other one- growing more and more as my kids get older. I need to a 3 day weekend ;-) |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 8:32am
| I don't think people have more spare time. Rather the opposite. Most of the sailing demographic is working longer hours than any time in the last few decades and when they aren't working, social trends mean parents are spending increasing time on what is seen as parenting duties. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 8:54am
Luckily for some of us parent duties involve sailing. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 9:38am
yep - it's bit different for those whom sailing has to fit in to that gawd-awful noughties neologism.... "me time".
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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 1:20pm
I class it as me time, what more could i want than to spend time doing something I love with some people I love...even if one of them is a bit bossy! ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 1:54pm
Although I sail with my wife in the 400, I still think it's tending towards indulging me sometimes rather than both of us equally. |
Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 2:30pm
The trick is to buy your wife a horse. Gives you almost unlimited time to go sailing (even if no money to actually spend on it!). ------------- Steve B RS300 411 https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page |
Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 3:18pm
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Steve
An allotment is lot cheaper and provides something much better as a bye product! Although I do get roped in for shed fixing, compost bin building etc. ------------- Gordon Lossc |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 Oct 16 at 3:28pm
The horse by-products are much coveted by allotment holders 
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Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 06 Oct 16 at 7:27am
Or find a new wife at the sailing club 
Our club has seen quite a few new partnerships blossom over the years, self included! |
Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 06 Oct 16 at 8:56am
So which club is that? Not of course that I'm on the look out!
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 06 Oct 16 at 9:17am
is that after the older ones breakdown for lack of sailing time
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Posted By: Poole Pirate
Date Posted: 06 Oct 16 at 12:20pm
| Is that Plenty of Crews .Com S. C. |