World Sailing and Rio
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12430
Printed Date: 07 Jul 25 at 12:57pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: World Sailing and Rio
Posted By: pompeysailor
Subject: World Sailing and Rio
Date Posted: 24 Jun 16 at 9:37am
Wondering if World Sailing will follow IAAF and the International Weightlifting Federation in banning Russia (and other named countries if they have entries?) from sailing in Rio?
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Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145
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Replies:
Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 24 Jun 16 at 11:13am
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Is there any evidence of Russian sailors doping? Have any sailors been banned for doping (apart from Simon Daubney)?
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Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 25 Jun 16 at 7:16am
IIRC there have been other cases of sailors being banned after positive tests for recreational drugs. I cannot remember names. Simon Daubney's case was also for a recreational drug. I don't recall any bans on sailors for non-recreational drugs.
I personally don't think it is WADA's proper role to involve itself with non performance-enhancing drugs.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Jun 16 at 10:46am
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So called recreational drugs still have pharmacological effects. It would be a very strange line to draw.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 25 Jun 16 at 2:54pm
Considering sailors doing the olympic circuit have to perform at a predictably big breeze venue one week and then a light breeze venue shortly after and are usually expected to perform well at both in order to maintain funding, a recreational drug such as Cocaine can be used to help ditch weight. Not exactly the best choice drug for it but it at least gives you a potential get out clause should you get tested that it wasn't for performance benefits and that it's only a "recreational drug".
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Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 25 Jun 16 at 4:13pm
I don't think cocaine is going to help you with rapid short-term weight loss. It's an appetite suppressant, that's all. Apart from which, someone I knew with a taste for the stuff could certainly not be described as thin.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 25 Jun 16 at 4:51pm
Oh I don't think it's that effective, but it's a case of which drugs could be used for effect, and what can you get away with. At that point Wada would have good grounds to make decisions to ban things which are typically seen as recreational drugs.
Get caught with Clenbuteral in your system or particular corticosteroids, which would be far more effective, and it's hard to argue against a ban. The moment atheletes may attempt other drugs that they can make an arguement for (such as it's "only recreational), then Wada should take that into consideration.
In actual fact Wada's aim in it's drugs selected for banning, or so they claim, is to prevent damage to the athlete. Thus why caffiene gets a free pass as it's seen not to do damage but cocaine is on the banned list.
Anti-doping is a whole fascinating world where most of the time the anti-doping agencies are even unsure as to why they're banning some things and letting others go (though constantly trying to defend their position as if they believe what they're saying). I think in reality recreational drugs are banned purely from a political point of view but that isn't to say that they don't have potential performance benefits.
Back to the topic of Cocaine, I believe both daniel di luca and jorg jaske (I may have spelt both completely wrong) have stated that it's used in cycling to help cut weight.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 27 Jun 16 at 10:04pm
Alcohol is the drug of choice for most sailors that I know.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 28 Jun 16 at 11:29am
When I was team racing as a student there were whole teams that would have failed testing for recreational drugs...
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Steve B
RS300 411
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Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 28 Jun 16 at 1:00pm
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I take rampiril, Cardicor, atoravastin and aspirin. Will this get me banned?
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Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 28 Jun 16 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by iiiiticki
I take rampiril, Cardicor, atoravastin and aspirin. Will this get me banned? |
All washed down with a nice Shiraz?
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Posted By: pompeysailor
Date Posted: 27 Jul 16 at 11:03am
so sailors do dope..(shocking!..): ......One athlete, Pavel Sozykin (470 helm), was denied eligibility, based upon the findings of the McLaren Investigation Report
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/191138/Six-Russian-athletes-confirmed-to-sail-at-Rio
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Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145
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Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 27 Jul 16 at 12:08pm
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Plenty of Olympic-level windsurfers smoked dope..... whoops, sorry, I meant they went downstairs to check to see how the repairs to their board were going.
It's a bit surprising in view of the intense physical toll that unrestricted pumping takes, although unrestricted pumping in Olympic classes was a bit after my time so in those cases I'm only going off what I heard, rather than what I saw, smelled and didn't inhale.
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 28 Jul 16 at 9:11am
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Does anyone know what Pavel Sozykin was found to have taken? None of the reports I've found contain that information.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 28 Jul 16 at 9:26am
I had a reasonable read of the MacLaren report, and my impression was that the issue is that there were a lot of urine sample bottles where the contents had been substituted and the real sample discarded. As I read it they were doing a sort of test before the officially recorded test, and if it came up as showing something prohibited they substituted a new sample, and did the same with the B sample. AIUI they had a means of opening and closing the B samples without leaving obvious evidence that the seal had been disturbed.
If that was the case with Mr Sozykin then there'd be no record of what might have been in his sample.
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Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 28 Jul 16 at 12:22pm
Thanks, so the Maclaren report says of itself:
"The third paragraph of the IP’s mandate, identifying athletes who benefited from
the manipulations, has not been the primary focus of the IP’s work. The IP
investigative team has developed evidence identifying dozens of Russian
athletes who appear to have been involved in doping. The compressed timeline
of the IP investigation did not permit compilation of data to establish an antidoping
rule violation. The time limitation required the IP to deem this part of
the mandate of lesser priority. The IP concentrated on the other four directives of
the mandate."
"Appear to" seems a weak basis for a ban on an individual sailor and another thing that bothers me is a 470 helm would seem about the least likely to benefit from the common forms of doping.
Are we in the realms of "something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done"?
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 28 Jul 16 at 12:32pm
Don't forget WADA had recommended the entire Russian team in all sports be banned.
All I know from my reading of the Maclaren report - available on the net - is that one unnamed Russian sailor was identified as appearing to have been involved in the process. Beyond that I don't believe I'm qualified to comment, but I bet that the people involved in the decision have seen a lot more evidence and have studied the issue a lot more carefully than I have.
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Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 28 Jul 16 at 12:37pm
I'm not in favour of collective punishments and WADA should be ashamed of itself for that recommendation.
But while the Maclaren report establishes systematic concealment of positive results, the paragraph I quoted above indicates it is not a sound basis for individual bans.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28 Jul 16 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by blueboy
and another thing that bothers me is a 470 helm would seem about the least likely to benefit from the common forms of doping.
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Not at all, a 470 helm needs to be able to remain very lightweight whilst being able to pump the main to max effort with the free pumping rule. Common forms of doping in sport are strength and power without increasing size, or even whilst trying to cut size.
I'd be shocked if there was actually any doping in sailing, especially planned methodical doping. However, to think that the gains don't apply to sailing is to glaze over the range of effects that you can choose to gain from various drugs.
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Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 29 Jul 16 at 2:31pm
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IOC have been spineless dumping this onto the individual sports ...
Russia have had a state sponsored doping programme and the IOC should have followed WADAs recommendation.
When the IOC dodged it all the sports federations should have just banned them all.
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