Cruising - Miracle or Solo or ??
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12414
Printed Date: 10 Aug 25 at 11:38am
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Topic: Cruising - Miracle or Solo or ??
Posted By: Noel2016
Subject: Cruising - Miracle or Solo or ??
Date Posted: 09 Jun 16 at 1:44pm
Hi
Wondered if I could get advice please.
Mainly I want a comfortable, stable, spacious second-hand boat for under £1000 that could carry my weight (92Kg) that doesn’t involve a trapeze, ducking under low booms and has a good seating position.
The type of sailing I will be doing will be 90 % lake cruising / 10 % informal mixed class fun racing….i.e. mainly sunny evening after work / weekend sailing.
I need to be able to haul it and sail it single handed(I’m pretty strong) . ..if it’s got room for one more person... great however I think it is more important that I can haul it and sail it alone.
So far, the two boats that have caught my eye are the Solo and the Miracle.
I have no issue carrying out maintenance and I like the classic look. Reading the forums it appears many people do sail miracles sometimes singlehanded…
The specs of both boats look to me relatively similar in length and beam but of course in the flesh it may be a very different story and I have yet to be able to see both or compare side by side.
Specs ;
Solo Dinghy Miracle Dinghy
LOA
3.78 m (12 ft 5 in) 3.89 (12 FT 9.5)
Beam
1.55 m (5 ft 1 in) 1.59 (5 FT 2.5)
Draft
1.07 m (3 ft 6 in) 1.07 m (3 ft 6 in)
Hull weight
70 kg (150 lb) 77 kg (170 lb)
Mainsail area
8.36 m2 (90.0 sq ft) 6.8 m2 (72 sq ft)
Jib area
NONE 2.1 m2 (23.0 sq ft)
RYA PN
1140 1185
Has anyone experience of both these boats that can tell me if there is a significant difference …specifically relating to ;
1. Boom height – I mean when your sat on the gunwhale and about to tack how much you have to duck to get across.
2. Spaciousness / seating comfort ….The miracle is obviously a two person, the solo a one person ….but the casings of the Solo and the thwart of the miracle may make one more spacious than the other? …
3. Speed – The canvas seems to be roughly the same 8.36 m2 versus 8.9 m2 (main and jib) …is one a boat considerably slower/ faster than the other ?
All feedback appreciated , feel free to educate me as Im a relative novice and finally if you think based on the above requirements I have missed out a more obvious choice please feel free to chip in….I have already discounted the folowing boats for my purposes ..
1. Blaze – outriggers don’t appeal.
2. Laser – too small
3. Topper / topaz
4. OK boom looks very low
5. Any trapeze boats
cheers
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Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 09 Jun 16 at 2:32pm
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The Solo does not have the highest of booms. It suffers from a problem a lot of older boats have - that a boom that was sensible when designed now droops irritatingly low because so much more mast rake is used than the designer expected.
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Posted By: Noel2016
Date Posted: 09 Jun 16 at 5:43pm
Thanks JimC for your thoughts,
Would you know whether the Solo boom height without fistfuls of mast rake applied would be comparable , lower or higher to the Miracle ?
Noel
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 09 Jun 16 at 5:51pm
Solo probably lower, but I wouldn't bet money. Not sufficiently familiar with the Miracle.
It does occur to me that for a cruising boat you could probably get 4" chopped off the leech of a mainsail for not too much money, and if you bought a secondhand boat with two sails you could get one modified... Its not, AIUI, any breach of class rules to have an undersize sail even for racing in the Solo, but of course one doesn't like giving sail area away.
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Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 10 Jun 16 at 10:02am
Even simpler than removing sail area is to get an eyelet put in, 4 inches above the clew, and connect the outhaul to that eye instead of the usual one.
A strap round the boom would clamp this down, and it would be like a miniature reef at the outboard end only.
However, there are plenty on ancient sailors out there who seem to manage fine with the Solo boom. (The OK/Finn is rather low though I agree!)
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 10 Jun 16 at 10:12am
I hate to speak in favour of the wretched Bandit that is the Miracle but I'd say of the two it would probably better suit your purpose than the equally wretched Solo. The Miracle is a very 'live' class there seems to be a curious number of luddites, slightly mentally retarded and abused children that appear to enjoy its wooden anachronism.
They get very excited after several years of discussion about the movement of a jib cleat, such is the intensity of their peculiar world, personally as you can see I think they are an alien life form or time travellers from the fifties confused at being transported into the twenty first century.
But they seem to enjoy life, so harmless enough, I'm sure like the Borg they'd be happy to assimilate you.
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Posted By: Noel2016
Date Posted: 10 Jun 16 at 11:46am
[QUOTE=MerlinMags] Even simpler than removing sail area is to get an eyelet put in, 4 inches above the clew, and connect the outhaul to that eye instead of the usual one.
A strap round the boom would clamp this down, and it would be like a miniature reef at the outboard end only. QUOTE]
I like the idea of that ...reversible and can be retro fitted if I find the boom too low.
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Posted By: Noel2016
Date Posted: 10 Jun 16 at 11:59am
iGRF that made me laugh ... It looks like I have a leaning to join these band of varnish loving luddites ... I blame my rather hectic job and middle age ...you see being able to finish work of an evening and drift about on a lake in a catatonic stupor listening to the tweets of a lesser spotted albatross appeals to me :)
Regarding the cockpit room / speed of these boats any thoughts ? ..I am not against modern plastic boats just cant find any that fit my purpose for my budget :) I did consider a laser 2000 but discounted it when I read the weight I would have to haul around....
And while I am being fussy ...I also don't like boats with low sides ... unless its blowing proper I want to stay relatively dry.
but I am happy to consider other boats.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Jun 16 at 12:25pm
Miracle a much nicer cruising boat than the Solo.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 10 Jun 16 at 1:44pm
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Have you considered the Graduate as a double handed alternative. Older ones can be picked up quite cheaply.
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Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 10 Jun 16 at 1:55pm
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The Miracle is tailor made for single handed cruising, but with the ability to take an extra passenger if needed. There is a bit more space than in a Solo (though as single handers go the Solo is pretty spacious), and the boom height is fairly sensible. The Miracle crowd tend to be a relaxed and pleasant bunch too. Speed wise, well I'm guessing a £1k Solo will be way off the pace of a modern example so in practice I'd expect there wouldn't be a lot of difference between a £1k Solo or Miracle. Older wood Miracles fetch no sort of money too, if you can find one in decent nick and don't mind keeping on top of the maintenance you will have one heck of a bargain. I used to sail one when my daughter was 4 or 5, and found launching and recovering the boat myself was no issue - I can't remember the exact weight but its pretty light.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Jun 16 at 4:10pm
Of course, the classic small cruising boat is the Mirror. Slower than either of the above, and shorter, but with far more useable space.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 10 Jun 16 at 5:04pm
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Both the mirror and the miracle have mainsail and jib. This means that it's easier to manage the balance (less stuck in irons), and you can drop the jib to reduce sail area if needed. Both are also spinnaker dinghies for more complexity!
The Solo has a "Plan B" sail - basically an old mainsail with the foot cut off and loose footed (an older Solo may well come with a couple of sails, so it only cost the sailmaker's time). That does mare the Solo tamer in stronger winds.
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Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 11 Jun 16 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Rupert
Of course, the classic small cruising boat is the Mirror. Slower than either of the above, and shorter, but with far more use-able space. |
Thumbs up to the Mirror from me, like most of my sailing generation I learned to sail and race in Mirrors. The Miracle was launched back in the 70s as the Mirrors big brother, and was initially called the Mirror Miracle. Mirrors are very flexible, in that they are car toppable, take a small outboard fairly well, and can even be used as a row-boat ! I love them to bits, I do think there is a bit more space in a Miracle though and its that bit faster. Horses for courses etc though.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 11 Jun 16 at 7:09pm
It was storage I was thinking of and being able to strap stuff on the front tank, where I was considering it more spacious.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: FCDB
Date Posted: 13 Jun 16 at 10:48pm
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I've got a Miracle which I sail single handed. It's easy to do, I have a few mods to make it easier, slightly longer tiller extension to let me sit forward to the thwart. Mainsheet slightly longer to suit. Jib sheets tied together to make it easier to trim. To windward you need to sail with a leg each side of the thwart, but as I am fairly hefty I don't need to hike, that's not too uncomfortable. In light winds the Miracle is a treat as you can heel it, and unstick the transom and sail away from all the heavy roto moulded slow handicap classes. The boat is light and easy to handle on shore. On the water it is nimble and just fast enough to cheat a foul tide. (That's probably the best advantage over a Mirror.) It is a friendly boat, it doesn't frighten novice crews. I sail on the Solent and have cruised to Beaulieu, the Folly, Calshot. It is a simple easy boat to sail. Great fun, give it a go.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 8:04am
You make it sound so appealing, I must borrow one of the ones that sail at Whitefriars and give it a go. Not sailed one apart from a wreck of one on a river, which wasn't the best intro, I think!
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 8:21am
Another option, if you want more space, is the Enterprise. The main would either need to be reefed, or a smaller sail put up in stronger winds, but the boat is pretty light, especially compared to the more normally cruised GP14. Well worth borrowing one for a go.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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