Sailing Hardware Spend
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Repair & maintenance
Forum Discription: Questions & tips on the subject
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12262
Printed Date: 12 May 25 at 12:48am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Sailing Hardware Spend
Posted By: SailingRacing
Subject: Sailing Hardware Spend
Date Posted: 04 Jan 16 at 3:11pm
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Hi all, After a straw poll market size. What would you say you spend per year on sailing hardware (excluding ropes), and which brand is your default. I have put a short survey together and would be grateful for some feedback http://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/S3Z695Y" rel="nofollow - https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/S3Z695Y Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 16 at 3:38pm
| Who are you and why do you want to know? |
Posted By: SailingRacing
Date Posted: 04 Jan 16 at 3:44pm
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I am just thinking about what the market size for sailing hardware really is? Thanks Paul
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Posted By: PaulPoshW
Date Posted: 04 Jan 16 at 4:45pm
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Short answer is massive. £Millions Is there space in the market for another brand? Would be difficult to launch against the current crop who have it pretty well covered Problem with hardware is everyone would like to spend £0 as it tends to mean something is worn out or broken.
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Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 04 Jan 16 at 6:17pm
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When I bought cheap boats I spent lots on hardware, now we are solely in manufacturer one designs I only buy hardware when something breaks, which isn't very often.
I have slowly come around to paying through the nose for Harken, I reckon you save in the long term. If there is market potential it might be top end quality at far eastern prices, but given the volumes that doesn't seem likely. |
Posted By: SailingRacing
Date Posted: 04 Jan 16 at 7:21pm
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Thanks all, I think you are correct re the market for a new brand, but I also wonder why you can't get things cheaper via the web than in shops. Looking at cycling (admittedly a bigger market) you can always get cheaper on those well known sites, than you would as a "distress" purchase when you break something and need it NOW.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 04 Jan 16 at 8:43pm
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Because there is a stronger cartel operating in the Dinghy world in flagrant breach of consumer rights and retail price maintenance laws. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 04 Jan 16 at 9:06pm
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Or could it be that the dinghy world has better quality fitting. In some 20 years of sailing Merlins, I have only broken a few items - burgees (probably one a year @ £6-8 each; tiller extension joints (4-5 @ about £10 each as I buy the ones with a string through the centre); a couple of jib cleats (simply worn out @ perhaps £20 each); one tiller which I sat on pulling up the spinnaker. Add to that one square topped hoop as a result of a weld failure and that one probably cost more to replace that all the others but is not a mass production item. Can't think that I have ever broken a block - decent quality ones seem to be largely bulletproof.
But probably more spent on string - spinnaker halyards and tapered sheets; tapered jib sheets; main halyards; occasional shrouds. Overall conclusion, most hardware in form of blocks, cleats, etc is sold to the dinghy building industry! ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 04 Jan 16 at 10:01pm
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I would concur, very rarely buy hardware anymore,but I do change my boat every three years, and boats are so well laid out that there is little to change. The existing brands are pretty good and I can't see the space in an apparently declining market ... Harken or Ronstan have it pretty well covered. I do spend a ridiculous amount on cordage and Zhik gear though. Despite GF's theories, not sure that any of the online retailers are making a killing, even if there were a cartel, and without doubt local chandlers struggle to hold the stock that the mail order specialists do ... Frankly the dinghy business is a cottage industry compared with bikes. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 06 Jan 16 at 9:19pm
On planet iGRF anyway. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 07 Jan 16 at 9:42am
OK, prove me wrong, show me the discount website with Harken, Ronstan et al blocks at the levels of discount you see in just about every other sporting activity.. Come on.. I'm waiting.  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 07 Jan 16 at 10:41am
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Similar argument following similar logic The tooth fairy is real............prove me wrong............. if you can't I'm correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance Argument from ignorance ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_language" rel="nofollow - Latin : argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy" rel="nofollow - fallacy in informal logic . It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). The burden of proof lies with the person making the original statement. |
Posted By: SailingRacing
Date Posted: 07 Jan 16 at 10:55am
| This was the reason behind my original post, there are no big discounts to be found. However my simple conclusion is that there is just not the volume to support it. Discounts come from selling a lot cheaply thereby still giving the same profit, but as has been pointed out, the parts nowadays last as long as the boats. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 07 Jan 16 at 11:08am
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Nope, there are no discounts because if you flagrantly offer one as a retailer, your supplier will threaten then refuse to continue supply.
That will obviously not be the case if you are canny enough to create your own brand, like Rooster, I imagine deals could be found on that brand, not that I've looked, unless of course they are now supplying other stores in which case they won't, nor will they continue to supply anyone who does. tbh It's not even up for debate wether it happens, it happens because I know it happens havign sat the other side of the table for long enough, but, in other markets since the recession, the onset of global internet pressure, there has been a seismic shift, which I'm surprised hasn't occurred in this market, then again they were piling Lasers high and selling them cheap not so long back at the S'oton Show. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 07 Jan 16 at 11:54am
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IGRF does have a valid point. Get the main dealer price for a car part then go Googling for a. Original branded, b. OEM, c. pattern. If the car has been around long enough and is common enough (like my old shed) then you can pay as little as you want, at your peril, but you have a choice of quality and cutthroat competition selling any given brand/part. A Harken/Ronstan/Allen part is generally a fixed price however, wherever and there isn't the volume to make it worth copying. Rooster, discount, no chance. |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 07 Jan 16 at 12:02pm
Probably. |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 07 Jan 16 at 5:14pm
There isn't. And the tooling costs are the same whether you make 1000 parts or 1,000,000 parts. |
Posted By: Buzz
Date Posted: 08 Jan 16 at 2:23pm
| If you plan to go on holiday in the USA then take advantage of the price differential between the UK and the USA. That is the time to buy Harken. |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 09 Jan 16 at 5:52pm
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Seem to remember the odd windsurfing brand was marketed with a rigid price list with dealerships removed if dealers did not toe the line. Mentioning no names. Pretty sure that there are deals to be done if you are buying enough kit, for instance if you are fitting out a new boat, even then experience suggests that Harken or Allen or Ronstan kit is pretty much discounted in the package prices to the builders, which does tend to get passed on. Also, many classes have schemes for their members that get a 5% or 10% discount. The suggestion that that there are cartels would suggest that there was lots of margin in retailing dinghy hardware, many dinghy part retailers would be happy to make an annual profit that many City types can earn in a week. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 09 Jan 16 at 9:44pm
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You might say that about the odd windsurfing brand, but I couldn't possibly comment, but I could point out certain actions taken against the Marine Trades Industry over the years by the OFT. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |