Blaze Nationals @ Hayling - this Fri, Sat & Sun
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12076
Printed Date: 09 Jul 25 at 1:25am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Blaze Nationals @ Hayling - this Fri, Sat & Sun
Posted By: pompeysailor
Subject: Blaze Nationals @ Hayling - this Fri, Sat & Sun
Date Posted: 07 Jul 15 at 6:42pm
|
Just a quick message to any Blaze sailors that this Friday > Sunday is the National Championships at Hayling Island Sailing Club.
* Entries still open * 7 races over 3 days - afternoon start on the Friday * Meal and Party Saturday Night * Awesome venue - Perfect for sailors and their families * Plenty of local accommodation available * Friendly class - barely a protest to be seen! There are a few boats on Apollo Duck if anyone is tempted :) Check out the Blaze Class Association website for full details |
Replies:
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 12 Jul 15 at 5:10pm
| wont have struggled for breeze this weekend, bet there's a few tired bodies heading out of Hayling about now (or perhaps much earlier today?)... not too much broken I hope |
Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 12 Jul 15 at 10:01pm
| Word has it the Blazes were kept ashore today and sent home but the Finns were sent out! What's that all about? |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 13 Jul 15 at 7:04am
| At a guess, the Blazes didn't fancy the bar in breeze on ebb tide & not enough water in the harbour to run racing inside. Not sure that midday low tide is the best choice of weekend for an event at HISC. |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 13 Jul 15 at 10:23am
|
Musto's were out giving it large in Torbay too :) I admit its slightly twitchy when you round the top mark and go to hoist and the boat is going so fast you're scared to come in off the wire to hoist ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 13 Jul 15 at 11:24am
It was a full on weekend wasnt it! Brilliant sailing is seems across the country. It was scary at Clevedon in the Zero's Huge waves and wind. No way i would of wanted to come off the wire to hoist! Kudos to you boys that did!
|
Posted By: pompeysailor
Date Posted: 13 Jul 15 at 11:25am
|
2 great days racing in 12-20knots and a wise decision in cancelling Sunday for the Blaze looking at the ambulances arriving at HISC for some of the Finn fleet who went out.
* Awesome work by the race committee and HISC as a whole * Weather was perfect for 2 out of 3 days and got in 5 quality races. Next year its Paignton!! |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 13 Jul 15 at 2:56pm
|
Allowing the Finns out on Sunday was a bit daft - it wrecked the overall results of anyone who was concerned about their boats, masts, bodies etc and stayed ashore.
Masts were broken on Saturday in less severe conditions. In retrospect (always easy) we should have got in two early races in the harbour Sunday am. Great event though |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 13 Jul 15 at 3:07pm
it was indeed - I was out at Shoreham on a 100L board with a 5.3 sail and it went from full power  to completely stacked  Great fun though, but I won't be travelling without my smallest kit in the future.
|
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 13 Jul 15 at 6:53pm
Bunch of Jessie's  And there was me thining a musto downwind with 28m2 was starting to get a but hairy chested...we even managed 12 races over event including 4 Saturday and 3 Sunday ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: PeterV
Date Posted: 14 Jul 15 at 9:29am
|
I was happy with the Finns going out on Sunday, 2 good races, great waves and the most awesome sail in over the bar. Couldn't ask for more.And yes I did capsize on the bar but came up quickly with a pile of shingle in the boat and inside the mast and then carried on planing in. I'm not sure I've ever been so fast in a Finn. ------------- PeterV Finn K197, Finn GBR564, GK29 Warsash |
Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 14 Jul 15 at 9:30am
So whats the story, I went home early to keep the family happy (they did well to put up with me sailing but they weren't going to watch me just stand around talking about sailing) ------------- RS300 |
Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 8:33am
|
Couple of head injuries, 1 requiring stitches, but nothing too bad.
We had to consider that we were going directly to the French Nats on Sun night, so opted to not risk the kit. It was a shame to have my results ruined by the decision, but it was the Nationals after all, and as always it is down to the competitor to decide . ------------- |
Posted By: Jamesd
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 8:55am
|
It wasn't that windy at all. rough, but sailable.
It would have been the wrong decision not to race. |
Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 9:02am
|
Except if your son snapped his mast the previous day in a capsize (only 5m of water), and he didnt want to risk snapping a borrowed one, and you're off to a pre-booked regatta in France which would be ruined for me if I'd snapped mine.
To not go out is a seamanship decision to be taken by the individual and as such nobody should be criticised for opting out. 5 broken masts on Sunday justifies my decision for me nicely though. Edited to say that I've just re-read your post James, and I agree that it would have been wrong to not provide racing for those willing to go😎 ------------- |
Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 9:04am
|
Well I disagree and wouldn't have gone out even if the Blaze race had been put on. Plus as soon as the majority have the same view surely that makes it the right decision. I was at a Buzz and Iso event there many years ago when nearly half the fleet, that's HALF THE FLEET, lost their mast. Its not just about the wind its about the conditions combined. Granted it wasn't to windy and waves make it fun and although it was low water there was still water to float in but put it all together.... Sometimes competitors have to be protected from them selves. ------------- RS300 |
Posted By: Jamesd
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 9:20am
|
hmm....it was a National Championships!
5 broken masts is effectively 5 capsizes, in 2 races out of a 50ish boat fleet.....yes each capsize ended in a broken mast, but there were so few of them, it cannot be argued that it was not the right decision to go. I see peoples view on damaging boats, but that is sailboat racing. It is different if you are off to France without the spare rig, but boats are expensive, they break and that's why you spend a fortune on insurance. |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 9:27am
I agree with that sentiment- and given the same scenario as Boots, I wouldn't risk the money invested in the french trip for one day's 'survival sailing' either - nationals or otherwise. I just wanted to pick up on your point about insurance.... do you really think dinghy insurance is expensive? I'd say the premium to cover ratio is quite low, especially when compared to pet insurance or motor policies.
|
Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 9:29am
|
Not sure I'd ever agree that its acceptable, or good seamanship to go out knowing there is a fair chance that you'll break your mast!! Especially as in this case less than half the fleet went out, so that makes it something like 20% of sailors put their boats and themselves at risk? ------------- RS300 |
Posted By: Jamesd
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 9:43am
Hmm, a Finn insurance is £350 ish a year. if you averaged out the time spent in the boat over the country, it is probably minimal....30 hours a year. in that respect it is pricey. But then consider that 7(?) people broke a mast on the weekend, each of them will be seeking a payout for a £4500 mast, £1000 to get it shipped from Switzerland, plus £1200 for the sail that inevitably ripped and a few hundred to get the scratches out the hull after the carbon was smashing into it.....then £350 is fairly cheap. Like all insurance, it is really expensive until you actually need it. The one thing i'd say about boat and certainly dinghy insurance is that they are very very good at paying and helping you out. perhaps they are all sailors themselves or that the community is very small and a bad experience spreads quicker than an STI. |
Posted By: Jamesd
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 9:47am
It was no different to the final race Saturday, did anyone head for the harbour out of fear of snapping a rig, hurting themselves etc? |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 9:48am
|
the sailor defines the risk... (or the parent if the sailor is under 18). I'm not sure what legal precedent would be set if organisers took on this role? Personally I'm happy with the current situation and as a general ethos prefer to make my own decisions than have the nannies get involved - given that people finished the race it seems that it was the right call imho. If the right call for the Blaze fleet was not to go out, then fair enough. They are different boats with grossly different skill profiles.
|
Posted By: PeterV
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 10:15am
|
There's many different ways to manage risk. I'm the lightest sailor in the Finn fleet but I was racing, not surviving on Sunday. However, I only pushed the boat deep on the runs in the lulls and headed up slightly in the stronger gusts to minimise the risk of a capsize. As a result I couldn't lay the bottom mark without a gybe in 2 of the 4 runs and so as on both occasions there wasn't a lull to gybe in I tacked round. Little time lost (much less than a capsize) and 2 finishes as a result. ------------- PeterV Finn K197, Finn GBR564, GK29 Warsash |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 10:17am
| classic seamanship - the ol' chicken gybe. Allegedly there have been very well regarded sailors win Phantom nationals employing it in the recent enough history. |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 1:40pm
|
It looked (and clearly was) sailable but I wimped out purely on the experience Ive had when breaking a mast earlier this year.
They are not off the shelf items and, unless you have a spare, can leave you mast-less for ages. I think that 7 masts over a weekend is worrying |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 1:45pm
Perhaps if the insurers were "less good" at paying out in such scenarios then perhaps some of the seamanship decisions taken on the day might be a little more considered. |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 1:51pm
|
Thats a fair point Moo.... but if there's racing on, then the cover needs to be in place. It's there for bigger things than egos and expensive swiss masts, it's there to protect other people and other people'c chattel in the event that we f*ck up. I'd agree with Rich96 on a point - 7 in a weekend sounds 'excessive', but this is cutting edge stuff and perhaps the premiums, or at least the excesses, toward the class should reflect it more than they currently do. £350 sounds cheap given the context....
|
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 2:02pm
|
It might be interesting to hear what the insurers say - knowing the fairly high risk of a breakage
Its perhaps a bit irresponsible on those days to just say 'the insurance will cover it' |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 2:14pm
Agree on that. Not sure it would be workable but perhaps if there was a clause on the lines of if average windspeed is above X knots then 3rd party only cover is provided? Yeah I know; what happens if wind is reasonable when you set out and an unexpected squall comes through and trashes your swiss mast? It could get very complicated! |
Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 2:58pm
I am not sure that it's that easy as the wind strength was not that extreme with an average wind speed of 20.58 knots whilst the fleet was out and highest gust of 27.9 knots. I think the problems came from typical confused seas, shallow waters and an ebbing tide when returning across the bar. The Chichester Bar can be very treacherous and has claimed more masts than I would want to guess. It's worse for those who don't know the waters and try to take the shortest route home! A tough call for everyone IMO, the organisers and the competitors alike. ------------- Rodney Cobb Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 6:13pm
|
Maybe it shows the maturity of the fleet (and I don't mean that they're all old b******s) that so many chose not to sail on the Sunday. It is, after all, the sailor's responsibility and not the PRO's to decide if they sail or not.
Given the quality in the fleet, to deny them the opportunity to race in those conditions would have been bizarre and perhaps deterred people from making the effort in the future. If we were never to sail whenever there was a slight risk of mast breakage, then lasers would never go out above a force 4!! |
Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 8:02pm
|
I think it's fair to say that with 17 Brits heading off to the French Nationals on Sunday evening's St Malo ferry for those without a spare mast prudency may have been the way to go? Huge price, potentially, to pay by potentially missing a great event in France having broken a boat or gear in somewhat demanding conditions? ------------- Rodney Cobb Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 10:07pm
|
Rodney, is there an opportunity to sell masthead floats for Finns sailing in shallow water?
If you made them reassuringly expensive enough I'm sure the Finn guys would go for it. ;-) |
Posted By: lasercrazee
Date Posted: 10 Oct 15 at 2:08pm
|
I just found this post while searching on some intel on the Devoti Fantastica Finn. For me the Sunday at the Nationals was the best day. Very sailable and a fantastic scoof back over the bar to finish. IMHO if the race is run it is a personal decision by each helm whether to compete based on their personal circumstances and I would strongly resist any other limits or restrictions. For those who didn't sail show some respect for Marten Bart from Holland who sailed & finished both races on Saturday with 67kg. A great example of how to sail a finn without loads of kilos. On another topic....what do people think about the new Devoti Fantastica ? Is it quicker than a classic ? Regards Fergus |
Posted By: lasercrazee
Date Posted: 10 Oct 15 at 2:14pm
Sorry meant Sunday for Marten
|
Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 10 Oct 15 at 3:36pm
For best info on the Devoti D-Fantastica Finn and to ask about performance, who's buying them and why, is Rodney at Suntouched Sailboats You know he will give a fair appraisal  ------------- Rodney Cobb Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |