Alto Refurb
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12028
Printed Date: 09 Jul 25 at 2:06am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Alto Refurb
Posted By: Woodburner
Subject: Alto Refurb
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 10:31am
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I've got the Alto of joy in the garage up ended for a makeover, new flushers, re rope and re fit and as you do the mind wanders... It's two issues are water ingress and egress, plus it's a tad on the weighty side which a bit of trimming here and there I'm sure would help, not least removing all the iron wear I'd fitted for kite deployment, I don't want to spend a fortune, and my crew has back issues at the moment so I have a few weeks off the water wit a chance to mess about. Or I bring it back to as close to class legal as poss with the obvious aim of disposing of it whilst in good condition. A conundrum, what to do...  ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |
Replies:
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 11:38am
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Is it just the photo, or is it really baby sh*t brown in colour?
Forget the class rules, you'll only whinge about restrictive practices while you do it. Wash through won't work, but getting rid of the crap on the front an excellent idea. Lift the bow a bit, make it drier! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 12:22pm
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It's blue like the dress, must be your eyes..
er and wash thru won't work because.....? ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 1:02pm
| Is it just me or is that chute designed to allow the kite to be hoisted and dropped over the wrong side of the bow? It may be symmetrical and be a trick of the camera though...? |
Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 2:23pm
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No your eyes don't deceive you originally I had it set up on the port side as the original was designed, with the metalwork angled back slightly, but for some reason everything seems to work better with it reversed and the more forward angle off the starboard side which makes for better recovery at the bottom of the 2nd reach on our port hand courses that and the chute I had built was a bit long so it also worked better. If it goes back to the class it'll be on the port side where there is a bit of a cutout in line with their upward facing portal. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 3:11pm
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Odd about the colour. The inside doesn't look blue at all in the PIC.
To make it self draining, you'd need to add a false floor high enough to drain through the back. The boat looks like it has a fair amount of rocker compared to many modern designs(a good thing, I think), but it means the floor would have to be very deep forwards, so you lose the sit in not on purpose of the boat. You may have thought of another way, of course? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 3:31pm
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is there much point in "class legal" when the class is almost non-existent? ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 4:20pm
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It's big in Banjo land up the Medway where they reach up and down this river all day ruining the class handicap. Before I flipped it I filled it with water until the water flowed out the back, it was about two inches deep at the centre point where the self balers are sighted, my plan is to shape some styro foam and sit it in the bottom, it'll still have to have cut outs for the balers I guess, but if it gives a level path from front to back it should direct the water out, then my plan was to double the size of those flaps at the back. As to sitting in, the crew is out on the wire and I spend half my time hanging over the side or with my feet hooked under that centre console thing as the footstrap isn't that well sighted. I won't resin it all into place unless it works it'll be like a false floor I guess. Then maybe I'll get fed up and not bother depending how well everything else goes. Rupert here's what colour it was new before it sailed on the brown English channel obviously..  ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 4:49pm
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I'm sure that a local scaffolding firm would be happy to remove all the junk from the bow ?
Is there a worse point to add all that weight ? |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 4:54pm
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Must be a trick of the light, the colour.
As for the rest of it, if you like the platform but not the way it is set up, then why not muck around with it. After all, you'll be after a boat to beat all comers, seeing as yardstick sailing isn't your cup of tea, so you need to make it quick and easy to sail, then go for on the water victories. Should beat the Toppers easily... ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: iiiiitick
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 5:30pm
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I like the idea of raising the floor a bit, why not? will it matter if your knees are 2" closer to your chin? Someone made a flat floor open transom Graduate once but the Grad rocker is big for a 12' boat so it was sailed with knees higher than ears. married couple as I recall.......wonder if boat or relationship went first...? |
Posted By: Alto-Tim
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 6:03pm
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Me as one of those five fingered banjo playing hillbillies based on the Medway Riviera, our little bit concerned of what's going on with
one of our flock. The boat was always designed for freedom of movement,
comfort ,controllability and ease-of-use. Putting a self draining or anything
thereof would breach one of the fundamental design features, as I understand
when Mike was designing the boat he looked at the milk crate test which as I
understand the 59 was built on that principle but with consideration and trying
one decided to go for comfort. I myself having a 59 for five years on the
Medway do know about how comfortable and Alto is compared to the self draining
options laser 4000, iso, buzz, which I can say myself is, back hurting knee
jarring, bruised ankle , and the odd trickle of blood down the leg as you yet
again geld yourself on something, but it's all part of that wonderful class
which the people enjoy; it comes with that particular boat!, it's a good job are all
individuals and have choice. I like to think that 99% of the time the boat is sailed in
an upper right fashion giving comfort and ease of use where 1% of the time losing the
water is a small price to pay , rather than 99% of the time wishing you was in
something comfortable but O look the
water runs away. We have just done a deal with and Alto sailor has traded in
his boat and brought 122 new and is at Whitstable yacht club. We have two new boat in stock and always carry spares for
our customers quick attention and prompt service. Any major modification would
require dispensation from the Alto class Association before it could go ahead
with dispensation to try, please put it on the agenda for next years AGM to be
discussed then. I myself can't see much hope. The Alto has mikes swinging pole system which gives the boat
a different dimention to all the others
where we can run dead downwind, this requires a bit more mechanics at the front
of the boat but again considering the features and the benefits outweigh any
slight speed improvement. Medway hillbilly. Tim. |
Posted By: iiiiitick
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 6:32pm
| ....goodness me felamelad....do not use logigc with ole' Woodbuggerer.....! |
Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 8:25pm
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Er five fingers? That's not fair, they mostly have six over there, one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind eh, no wonder the yardstick is dropping by the minute. As it happens, Mike did consider raising the floor we talked about it ages ago, but at the time he was busy being jerked around by the various manufacturers and dealers so had other things on his mind. It's probably not going to happen but to do it, the only bit that has to be raised is the mid section where the crew operates and if you think about it, it just needs raising to the floor level at the stern so the height would be uniform and you'd get a bit of buoyancy from the foam as well as water displacement, which would be welcome given when we do get swamped, it's like a bloody cold bath tub and it lasts at least the length of a beat. Anyway I've just got a mail from Jo with loads on it to consider, so it's getting more unlikely by the hour...
------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 8:30pm
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Not quite as simple as that. You need a positive slope from front to back at the most extreme bow down trim you will ever use, otherwise you end up with a puddle at the front in light airs and if you're going to do without a transom you need enough buoyancy aft to support helm weight while putting the rudder on.
Self draining boats that don't quite self drain are spectacularly irritating to sail. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 8:30pm
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Major mods would only need permission if the boat is to race as an Alto. Otherwise, it is really up to an owner what he wants to do with a boat.
Of course, the downside is that you end up with a boat which could well be worthless, and you have no one to race against as a class, but in this case I'm not sure the owner cares. Personally, I'd try and make the boat the best sorted Alto out there if she were mine, but if I've learned anything about our multi personality grf/WB is that experimenting is in the genes, so will feel stifled by rules! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 9:52pm
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The problem is, the boat was a prototype to start with, to make it 'class legal' whatever that currently is, would need a different mast, boom, and main sail since they have all changed in the years and manufacturer changes, it went back to Rondar once for the 1st set of changes and after all the gel coat fell off the bottom, but it still has a superstars mast which is now proctor or selden and the main is smaller than mine. I've sailed and enjoyed it for what it is, a super fun, fast yet easy to handle with a variety of crews racing dinghy, it has given us great times over the years, but it was just getting too heavy to haul up and down the beach, the flushers are shot and so are all the ropes and wires, as are the rags, so it badly needed a makeover which is what it is going to get. The only time it goes anywhere is occasionally to round the isle of sheppey but i doubt I shall do that now they've screwed the yardstick below the 505 another example of blundering incompetence by you know who. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |
Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 9:59pm
Boats with pathetic self balers and flaps that leak are even more irritating i can assure you, this has a bulkhead and tanks at the mast base so the water collecting area is limited to the region around the CB case, so it could be done and it could be a retro fit if done professionally which they should consider, everything Bootscooter found in his review is spot on, and he sailed at Oxford, it's a lot worse in cross chop. This boat is also a sieve it's had that many holes drilled in it, I swear it even took on water towing it from the club to the man cave. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |
Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 01 Jun 15 at 10:17pm
I loved the Alto, and would have it off you Grumph, but I'm sure you couldn't afford to sell it for what I could afford to pay (2 Finns to support )
I don't know whether you boat has "grandfather" rights (in terms of class legal), but it'd be a brilliant "sh*ts'n'giggles" boat for windy days for someone.  ------------- |
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 02 Jun 15 at 12:17pm
I assume this detail will be left off the classified ad if you come to sell it? |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 02 Jun 15 at 12:51pm
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I'm surprised to hear the Alto isn't self draining anyway.... That's a bit of an oversight isn't it?
------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 02 Jun 15 at 1:02pm
The beauty of epoxy filler, a sander and a good paint job.. unlike that wood stuff that rots from within.. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |
Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 02 Jun 15 at 1:03pm
That my friend is understatement of the week. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |
Posted By: skslr
Date Posted: 02 Jun 15 at 2:56pm
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You could do “dinghy land” a favor and drive the development
of a “single wire skiff-type dinghy for two grown ups” following the ISO / Laser 4000 forward. The RS800 failed in the single wire version and 29er, RS500,
V3000, Laser Vago etc. are just too small. Cockpit · Not having a double floor cockpit is a step back compared to all these and even many “traditional” classes other than the 505. To save some weight and get the centerboard closer to the water when capsized you could than cut out the side tanks like this http://www.mader-boote.de/neue-boote/korsar/" rel="nofollow -·
Cutting down the centreboard case will also save
some weight, control lines could be led to (and through) side decks as shown
instead. ·
An aft briddle would allow to remove the mainsheet
hoop. Less weight und way better optics. ·
Same for the mainsheet jammer, Auto ratchet
block on the boom should work just fine. ·
If the added stiffness of the double floor
allows a more open transom design would make crawling in if all went wrong easier and look
much better. (And make sure the builder did not hide some wood there) Bow ·
Some shiny carbon thing for the chute opening
would be a lot more stylish · The sheaves to the right and left of the pole look so 1960s, replace by something like this https://www.coastwatersports.co.uk/selden-cheek-block-p-2304.html" rel="nofollow - ·
Chute obviously needs to be black J AltO still got many
things right, so there is some potential! |
Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 02 Jun 15 at 3:21pm
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Thanks skslr, excellent advice, the hoop was going anyway and I was going to trim the centre console there is way too much of it. Tbh the side tanks don't really support it that high out of the water but I guess they might if the bottom were to thick, it would be an absolute joy if it were double bottomed and done in the way you suggest, good to see someone else has some vision. I've ordered those two Selden cheek blocks I can mount them so they are further outboard, I quite like those Turbo 60's thingies they came to me wrapped around a can of Frey bentos pie, given to me by a psychologically disturbed young man who I managed to save into the heaven that is windsurfing. Regrettably he took to swimming in birds mess and has caught pneumonia he's not expected to survive well not in the same form we knew him..
------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/moses" rel="nofollow - Foil fun |