I've been trying to choose a club to sail at and 2 I would say have very aggressive sailors who basically bully their way around the lake!

At one lake I saw someone who had no rights to water come in screaming starboard at a boat which had 2 young girls in it who froze like statues allowing him to push in and leave them in shock, the said boat on another occasion just bullied a boat that had right of way to push him off course, but he managed to turn it around!!!! and then shouted that the other person should get out of his way.

Now I know that doesn't sound too bad, we've all pushed our luck! but these where just a few of what I saw. 

Now where does that stand in Rule 69? 

My views would be that being a bully on the course is wrong

the sailor is a repeat offender

he showed aggression against other sailors

he showed little remorse against other sailors

these lapses of good conduct where viewed by a large group of people (who where feeding ducks at the side of the lake!!!)

and I would say put a few people off showing interest in sailing

so, from what I understand, its a closed case of rule 69?

or am I missing something?

thanks

It's up to you how you choose a club.

You may wish to focus on clubs that have signed up to the RYA Charter and advertise this fact.  It appears to address your concerns.

Originally posted by davejones At one lake I saw someone who had no rights to water come in screaming starboard at a boat which had 2 young girls in it who froze like statues allowing him to push in and leave them in shock, the said boat on another occasion just bullied a boat that had right of way to push him off course, but he managed to turn it around!!!! and then shouted that the other person should get out of his way. Now I know that doesn't sound too bad, we've all pushed our luck! but these where just a few of what I saw.

To knowingly and intentionally break a rule is a clear breach of sportsmanship and breaks rule 2 Fair Sailing.

A boat that breaks a rule through ignorance or misundersanding of the rule, or misjudgment does nothing unsportsmanlike, absent knowingness or intentionality.

Sailors themselves are expected to enforce the rules (RRS Basic Principles Sportsmanship and the Rules).

If no boat protested, then it may be assumed that the competitors in the race did not view the incidents in the same light as you do.

Originally posted by davejones Now where does that stand in Rule 69?  so, from what I understand, its a closed case of rule 69?

Nicely put Jim.

But what it boils down to is the club, relying on it's culture and the sanctions available to it against its members under its constitution, to deal with social aberration.  By all means use club rules (or if you think necessary local Sailing Instructions) to deal with bad manners, but don't expect the Racing Rules of Sailing to do it for you.

And it's not up to the 'club' to decide to hold a hearing for rule 69:  that decision rests with a protest committee, which, unlike a race committee cannot be directed and must be independent.

I also disagree that Case 47 is about intimidation:  it's about decepetion:  it contains very little facts or evidence about intimidation:  the asymmetry of experience is about the likelihood of being deceived, not vulnerability to intimidation.

But, were I to visit a club I was thinking of joining and witnessed a sailor shouting and appearing to bully people it would put me right off. I would probably ask to speak to the duty officer and make a comment about it.

We had an issue with someone like this at Hunts a few years ago. He really did some damage to our youth section before the committee took action (outside the RRS as no one would protest him).