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SNT Sailjuice

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11867
Printed Date: 09 Jul 25 at 4:06pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: SNT Sailjuice
Posted By: scotsfinn
Subject: SNT Sailjuice
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 11:20am
OK Guys - it's Sunday Morning and not a thing on the Forum about the Steve Nicholson Trophy. Are you are asleep - was it that hard an event?
How good was it. What was the story of the day?
What happened to the Two Handers and Asymmetric Boats? Din't seem to appear in separate results or on tracker
How many D-ones and who reigned supreme
D-Zero vs Aero Bar - who had the best turnout. sailing, fun and best points haul
Why didn't Nick Craig win out right?
Where was Mr Holman?
ect ect 


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Largs Sailing Club. D-Zero GBR 57, B14 744
www.blueseaconsultingllp.com



Replies:
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 1:01pm
On the news section of Sailjuice site it says:

Record turnout : Double Handers Fireball - Ian Dobson and Dan Schniber. Single Handers - Phantom Will Gulliver, Asymmetric RS 400 Sam Knight
Results to follow

RS 400 Sam and John Knight win the Stevie Nicholson Trophy, with Sam Knight also managing to sail in the RS300 fleet.

From my recollection of the entries, Nick Craig was not entered. Also wind looked to be in high teens rather than the destruction derby predicted by some.

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Merlin Rocket 3609


Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 1:22pm
Nick Craig was sailing an OK,  top 10 but still waiting on the results.

Great winter sailing,  sunny,  moderate breeze,  only issue direction not best for lake,  so all a bit crowded


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http://www.sailracer.org" rel="nofollow - www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 1:41pm
Wind direction made it shifty, course didn't have a proper beat in the second race and in my opinion was too short for the size of the single hander fleet.  We had big rafting issues which ruined the race for some people.  Coupled with a windward mark placed in the only area of the lake shadowed by trees.  Only the single handers had trackers.  Hence why you couldn't see anything for the assy/double handers.  Still a great event, weather was really pleasant.  Brilliant meticulous organisation as usual, from parking to the excellent galley service.  I simply love this event, it's frankly miles ahead of the others in the series.  

Thanks Northampton yet again.  7 zeros were racing, 4 aeros (only two owned ones I beleive) of varying rigs.


Now if I could just find the results?.??? As I have no idea who came where! 


Posted By: Jon Meadowcroft
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 9:26pm
As ever a great welcome from Northampton SC. I always try to do this event and to remember Steve who was taken too soon.

Onto the sailing, I cant find any results either. Seems very odd that despite all the technology that is being thrown at this and other events results seem to be hard to come by. I'm sailing with my son, the goal is having fun, but finding out where you finished is part of that. This needs to be fixed for future events. It seems to be a new problem as I remember results being available in the past.

Also sad to see so many singlehanders being sailed by blokes. Sadly double handed sailing seems to be in major decline. What that seems to mean is fewer women sailing which is a loss.

Mixing doublehanders and assymetrics (including those sailed singlehandedly?) was not an ideal solution to the fleet size problem and I hope that is not repeated. I think a better separation would be fast / medium and slow. I certainly don't want to sail around with musto skiffs that can't keep a proper look out

Most memorable things of the day?
1 - The singlehanded mirror coming third in the doublehanders...
2 - The musto skiff sailing in a different class to the contender...
3 - The musto skiff whose leeward wing hooked a scorpion crew and then capsized them - I missed this, heard it in the bar afterwards
4 - The mid-fleet 49er trying to nip in on the port lay line at the first windward mark with inevitable consequences
5 - The handicap of the OK, which must be wrong in comparison to all the other singlehanders

Finally for winter events maybe we should do more pursuit races? It is more obvious who has won and saves all the number crunching faffing that must be going on.




Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 9:35pm
OK handicap too nasty?

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 9:39pm
OK handicap is reputedly nasty(results notwithstanding) . Some of the great and good of s/h sailing in them at the mo, so if they aren't at the very sharp end of mixed h/cap at least in light to moderate then it would indicate a dodgy handicap




Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 9:42pm
This year the clubs have found results a challenge,  mainly on lap counting and the bigger fleets.  There doesn't seem to be a standard way of recording,  each club does it differently,  we are looking at standardisation going forward.

Still waiting on results


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http://www.sailracer.org" rel="nofollow - www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 9:42pm
I would say it's going to be hard to judge the ok handicap without seeing how they ended up in the results.  Also it's important to rememebr they were one of the slower boats in the single handed fleet and with the low mast height they get punished off the line by boats with more horse power.  They also don't seem to plane like other dinghies.  So they really struggled on courses that's were basically a reach run reach with a very, very small beat.


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 9:52pm
Yep being slowest in a dense fleet is tough. But they should be up with lasers upwind I believe, losing out a little offwind


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 9:53pm
Did you own Nick Craig then Russ?



Posted By: Jon Meadowcroft
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 9:56pm
don't look at the OK handicap over this meeting look at it over a longer time frame of these type of events. It does not work, either on handicap or pursuit. Great sailors who win regularly in other classes fail to win in the OK even though they have sailed them for years. QED.

Overall pretty irrelevant to OK sailors who still get good sailing with each other. However there is a load of moaning about other boats which are apparently 1% or so wrong!


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 10:12pm
dan the upwind leg was pretty minimal mate!  I beat nick Craig and Charlie Cumbley on the water in First I think finished next door to Jim Hunt, so they will of slapped me on PY.  Second race, not sure what happened, but I went from being about 10th round windward mark to last zero by leeward mark thanks to huge rafting issues and wind holes.   All my fault, obviously but a little frustrating as the pack was so tight with such a tiny mainly reaching course that it was inevitable.  I wouldn't want to take away from the event as I love it, and the club.  But I was a little frustrated in myself and how things panned out.

I think most would agree the ok handicap is a little harsh Jon, no one is ever really going to argue that.  However is that not for a py thread??  Or maybe for the ok owners to moan about, because where I am sat they all look pretty happy.  One of my best mates races and Ok, he is a very good sailor I beleive his personal handicap in his ok is something like 120 points off that of the standard py.  Not bad for a boat with an obvious handicapped, handicap.  Or maybe it isn't so bad across a range of conditions?


Posted By: Jeepers
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 10:31pm
Jeez, I just wouldn't travel 100s of miles for this sort of thing. Admire the resolve of those that do, but this isn't sport as far as I'm concerned. A lottery of who's got the right ratings, the right course, and the right boat, on the right day. I can get this at my home club any weekend of the year for a microcosm of the cost! In fact, I think we just, for once, just this once, blew off Endeavour Trophy 2nd place today. Just maybe. Travelled 9 miles, and a few beers for me partner to do that.


Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 11:00pm
Back in history the OK was something of a PY hitter, all the more so in the light stuff. I remember them walloping a very high class fleet in a light airs Burnham Icicle (when that was just about 'the' premier winter event) - a wonderfully named boat too - hoof hearted!

An another example of how the shifting sands of the PY system can cast doubt over how the numbers are arrived at.
D

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Dougal H


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 11:10pm
Just as a bit of perspective over the last 50 odd years the OK PY number has varied between 1100 and 1116. Not that a 1965 OK is any more like a 2015 OK than a 1965 Fireball is like a 2015 one.


Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 8:26am
At the winter series I'm doing the OKs (PY 1100) start with the Lasers (PY1088) and generally beat them around the course.  YMMV.


Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 11:33am
Results now received from NSC

http://GJW.SailRacer.org" rel="nofollow - http://GJW.SailRacer.org


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http://www.sailracer.org" rel="nofollow - www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 11:41am
The OK results look pretty much mixed in with the Solos. There are some big names in the OKs, but as we all "know" that the Solo handicap is quite kind, maybe the OK one isn't far off right?

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 11:43am
Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

<div style="color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: normal;">This year the clubs have found results a challenge,  mainly on lap counting and the bigger fleets.  There doesn't seem to be a standard way of recording,  each club does it differently,  we are looking at standardisation going forward.<div style="color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: normal;"><div style="color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: normal;">Still waiting on results


Woaa.
BRASS MONKEY @ Yorkshire Dales results were availiable at the venue within an hour of last finisher, and sent to Sailjiuce / Sailracer within a couple of hours (would have been immediately if we had any Internet connection at the club).

-------------
Keith
29er 661 (with my daughters / nephew)
49er 688 (with Phil P)
RS200 968
Vortex (occasionally)
Laser 2049XX


Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 11:51am
Originally posted by Hector

Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

<div style="color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: normal;">This year the clubs have found results a challenge,  mainly on lap counting and the bigger fleets.  There doesn't seem to be a standard way of recording,  each club does it differently,  we are looking at standardisation going forward.<div style="color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: normal;"><div style="color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: normal;">Still waiting on results


Woaa.
BRASS MONKEY @ Yorkshire Dales results were availiable at the venue within an hour of last finisher, and sent to Sailjiuce / Sailracer within a couple of hours (would have been immediately if we had any Internet connection at the club).

Yes YDSC very good at getting results published both at the club and to us.  IMHO best to get something out quickly,  even if provisional


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http://www.sailracer.org" rel="nofollow - www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management


Posted By: Woodbotherer
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Did you own Nick Craig then Russ?

Dunno about Nick Craig but it looks like a couple of EPS's might have gift wrapped his botty..

Makes me wonder what a Beard powered EPS could have done to him..


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http://www.edgeactionsports.co.uk/collections/soundcast-portable-weatherproof" rel="nofollow - Soundcast Weatherproof Speakers


Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 12:18pm
To be fair, our results were slow to come through the year before - mostly for the reasons Simon described. We put a huge effort in this year to make sure that wasn't repeated.
Well done to Northampton fir what sounds another successful event - not least in terms of the charity perspective and in memory of Steve.

-------------
Keith
29er 661 (with my daughters / nephew)
49er 688 (with Phil P)
RS200 968
Vortex (occasionally)
Laser 2049XX


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Did you own Nick Craig then Russ?

Dunno about Nick Craig but it looks like a couple of EPS's might have gift wrapped his botty..

Makes me wonder what a Beard powered EPS could have done to him..

Graeme, it wasn't my finest ever result.  Some fairly massive mistakes on my part really.  There was an EPS that was going very nicely indeed!  But to be honest It was hard to spot anything other than a few boats in front of you it was that busy!  Hopefully next year the wind will blow from another direction to allow for a proper beat and some kind of separation.  I always felt like I was stuck in third gear if that makes sense??  


Posted By: Woodbotherer
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 1:10pm
You haven't shaved that beard have you?

I've had two excellent results this year so far thanks to mine, maybe it's time to take it on the road...Wink


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http://www.edgeactionsports.co.uk/collections/soundcast-portable-weatherproof" rel="nofollow - Soundcast Weatherproof Speakers


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Did you own Nick Craig then Russ?

Dunno about Nick Craig but it looks like a couple of EPS's might have gift wrapped his botty..

Makes me wonder what a Beard powered EPS could have done to him..

Err, the results say EPSs 34 and 78, First Aero 23 and Zero 32.

Nick 9th, beaten by 2xPhantom (1st and 3rd on their so mean PYS, 4 in top 15), 2 300, 1 each Contender, RS600, Blaze and Laser 


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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 1:17pm
It was never going to be easy for the club ....

There is an argument that says good old-fashioned 'all-in' pursuit format would be a better one given the vargaries of wind and numbers involved.  At least the 'excitement' (and confusion plus collisions !) of very short beats and very large numbers on the line at any one time would be much reduced.

 A 'tour' of the whole water would help introduce more separation as well.   The Bloody Mary works very well (IF you exclude the local 'joys of launching and parking Wink) and allows a very large number of entries in a way that a 'regular' format cannot...  There are other very good pursuit examples as well and as a by-product they tend to be better for spectators.   You really can follow the racing and who is near the front .... and it builds to a watchable finish.

Lastly - Slower classes are not 'buried' in starts as some can be in 'mass' starts and then have to sail in churned wind for long periods.    I'd also argue that while there is no easy format for hard pressed RO's and results coordinators but pursuits are a tad 'easier' allround.

After all this is winter event muti-class handicap racing !  Perhaps KISS should be the order of the day.

Mike L.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by Hector

 
Woaa. 
BRASS MONKEY @ Yorkshire Dales results were availiable at the venue within an hour of last finisher, and sent to Sailjiuce / Sailracer within a couple of hours (would have been immediately if we had any Internet connection at the club).

Brass Monkey was a very well run event indeed just a shame the wind decided not to play ball! I am looking forward to my next trip up there in October. 

Can't comment on the results as, given the weather, I decided getting away ASAP after racing was the order of the day. Great work by all especially the delivery of hot mince pies as I was packing up!


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Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 2:11pm
Simon, the last phantom, 1034, was sailing with a tin rig.  Is there any way we can get hold of the data so we could cluck ste his place according to our local handicap for older phantoms?  Just for curiosity's sake?

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the same, but different...



Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by winging it

Simon, the last phantom, 1034, was sailing with a tin rig.  Is there any way we can get hold of the data so we could cluck ste his place according to our local handicap for older phantoms?  Just for curiosity's sake?

What's your older Phantom PY  ?

Yes would be interesting to re-process,  fits in with our project on Age related handicaps 


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http://www.sailracer.org" rel="nofollow - www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management


Posted By: Woodbotherer
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Did you own Nick Craig then Russ?

Dunno about Nick Craig but it looks like a couple of EPS's might have gift wrapped his botty..

Makes me wonder what a Beard powered EPS could have done to him..

Err, the results say EPSs 34 and 78, First Aero 23 and Zero 32.

Nick 9th, beaten by 2xPhantom (1st and 3rd on their so mean PYS, 4 in top 15), 2 300, 1 each Contender, RS600, Blaze and Laser 

Hadn't realised the second one was back that far, but in any event the first one would have been an ordinary human I'd guess, as against some flown in sky jockey in an Aero, and in light wind imagine what could have happened with somebody really good with a beard in an EPS.


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http://www.edgeactionsports.co.uk/collections/soundcast-portable-weatherproof" rel="nofollow - Soundcast Weatherproof Speakers


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

Originally posted by winging it

Simon, the last phantom, 1034, was sailing with a tin rig.  Is there any way we can get hold of the data so we could cluck ste his place according to our local handicap for older phantoms?  Just for curiosity's sake?

What's your older Phantom PY  ?

Yes would be interesting to re-process,  fits in with our project on Age related handicaps 

Tin rigs sail off 1035 at Hunts. Thanks very much.


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the same, but different...



Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by winging it

Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

Originally posted by winging it

Simon, the last phantom, 1034, was sailing with a tin rig.  Is there any way we can get hold of the data so we could cluck ste his place according to our local handicap for older phantoms?  Just for curiosity's sake?

What's your older Phantom PY  ?

Yes would be interesting to re-process,  fits in with our project on Age related handicaps 

Tin rigs sail off 1035 at Hunts. Thanks very much.

On that age of boat it will be one of the heavier GRP hulls as well wont it?  


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Did you own Nick Craig then Russ?

Dunno about Nick Craig but it looks like a couple of EPS's might have gift wrapped his botty..

Makes me wonder what a Beard powered EPS could have done to him..

Err, the results say EPSs 34 and 78, First Aero 23 and Zero 32.

Nick 9th, beaten by 2xPhantom (1st and 3rd on their so mean PYS, 4 in top 15), 2 300, 1 each Contender, RS600, Blaze and Laser 

Hadn't realised the second one was back that far, but in any event the first one would have been an ordinary human I'd guess, as against some flown in sky jockey in an Aero, and in light wind imagine what could have happened with somebody really good with a beard in an EPS.

Graeme the guy in the EPS was a pretty good sailor from what I saw.  I cant ever remember being beaten by and EPS on the water before.  But that's probably because I have only sailed against a handful


Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by winging it

Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

Originally posted by winging it

Simon, the last phantom, 1034, was sailing with a tin rig.  Is there any way we can get hold of the data so we could cluck ste his place according to our local handicap for older phantoms?  Just for curiosity's sake?

What's your older Phantom PY  ?

Yes would be interesting to re-process,  fits in with our project on Age related handicaps 

Tin rigs sail off 1035 at Hunts. Thanks very much.

Did a test and he gains 4 places,  obviously didn't apply the logic to other boats but shows the principle 


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http://www.sailracer.org" rel="nofollow - www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 2:49pm
That's great, he will be pleased!

Thanks very much Tongue


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the same, but different...



Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by winging it

That's great, he will be pleased!



and that is one of our key objectives of making more use of handicaps to acknowledge all performers,  regardless of being in a brand new boat.  


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http://www.sailracer.org" rel="nofollow - www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management


Posted By: Woodbotherer
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Null

Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Did you own Nick Craig then Russ?

Dunno about Nick Craig but it looks like a couple of EPS's might have gift wrapped his botty..

Makes me wonder what a Beard powered EPS could have done to him..

Err, the results say EPSs 34 and 78, First Aero 23 and Zero 32.

Nick 9th, beaten by 2xPhantom (1st and 3rd on their so mean PYS, 4 in top 15), 2 300, 1 each Contender, RS600, Blaze and Laser 

Hadn't realised the second one was back that far, but in any event the first one would have been an ordinary human I'd guess, as against some flown in sky jockey in an Aero, and in light wind imagine what could have happened with somebody really good with a beard in an EPS.

Graeme the guy in the EPS was a pretty good sailor from what I saw.  I cant ever remember being beaten by and EPS on the water before.  But that's probably because I have only sailed against a handful
Well from what I've managed to google in order to rebut any further Frensham Pondsailor bollox, he appears to be a young guy from Haversham whereas the Aero guy again from my googling appears to be an Olympic Aspirant from the 470 squad.
Oh and do I need to remind you of  Broxbourne EPS encounter..Wink


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http://www.edgeactionsports.co.uk/collections/soundcast-portable-weatherproof" rel="nofollow - Soundcast Weatherproof Speakers


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:05pm
Which aero guy is that?

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the same, but different...



Posted By: Woodbotherer
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by winging it

Which aero guy is that?

https://www.youtube.com/user/rbcg105" rel="nofollow - This one I think could be wrong of course..


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http://www.edgeactionsports.co.uk/collections/soundcast-portable-weatherproof" rel="nofollow - Soundcast Weatherproof Speakers


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:12pm
Richard Pakes from Haversham is a very handy sailor, usually in a Supernova.  I think he'd be pleased to be called young.....

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the same, but different...



Posted By: Woodbotherer
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by winging it

Richard Pakes from Haversham is a very handy sailor, usually in a Supernova.  I think he'd be pleased to be called young.....

Maybe they need to change his picture on the website, looks quite young from where I'm ageing..


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http://www.edgeactionsports.co.uk/collections/soundcast-portable-weatherproof" rel="nofollow - Soundcast Weatherproof Speakers


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by Null

Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Did you own Nick Craig then Russ?

Dunno about Nick Craig but it looks like a couple of EPS's might have gift wrapped his botty..

Makes me wonder what a Beard powered EPS could have done to him..

Err, the results say EPSs 34 and 78, First Aero 23 and Zero 32.

Nick 9th, beaten by 2xPhantom (1st and 3rd on their so mean PYS, 4 in top 15), 2 300, 1 each Contender, RS600, Blaze and Laser 

Hadn't realised the second one was back that far, but in any event the first one would have been an ordinary human I'd guess, as against some flown in sky jockey in an Aero, and in light wind imagine what could have happened with somebody really good with a beard in an EPS.

Graeme the guy in the EPS was a pretty good sailor from what I saw.  I cant ever remember being beaten by and EPS on the water before.  But that's probably because I have only sailed against a handful
Well from what I've managed to google in order to rebut any further Frensham Pondsailor bollox, he appears to be a young guy from Haversham whereas the Aero guy again from my googling appears to be an Olympic Aspirant from the 470 squad.
Oh and do I need to remind you of  Broxbourne EPS encounter..Wink

I think i still beat you Graeme?  If you remember also the boat I was sailign ahd a problem with the mast collar..... The chap in Eps  is quite a good yachter certainly better than me  here are his results in other fleets http://enter.sailracer.org/sailor_results.asp?sailor=Richard%20PAKES


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Null


Originally posted by winging it


Originally posted by Simon Lovesey


Originally posted by winging it

Simon, the last phantom, 1034, was sailing with a tin rig.  Is there any way we can get hold of the data so we could cluck ste his place according to our local handicap for older phantoms?  Just for curiosity's sake?

What's your older Phantom PY  ?
Yes would be interesting to re-process,  fits in with our project on Age related handicaps 

Tin rigs sail off 1035 at Hunts. Thanks very much.

On that age of boat it will be one of the heavier GRP hulls as well wont it?  


Most definitely Russ. The polyester boats were up to 14kgs overweight. That makes the difference, not the tin rig.

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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by winging it

Richard Pakes from Haversham is a very handy sailor, usually in a Supernova.  I think he'd be pleased to be called young.....

Maybe they need to change his picture on the website, looks quite young from where I'm ageing..

He got a Masters prize at this year's Nationals, but I have no idea how old he is.

If anyone has any tuning info for a tin rig boat - Wavelength mast - it would be much appreciated.


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the same, but different...



Posted By: Woodbotherer
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by Null

 The chap in Eps  is quite a good yachter certainly better than me  here are his results in other fleets http://enter.sailracer.org/sailor_results.asp?sailor=Richard%20PAKES

You've got to do something about that mental attitude, nobody is better than you, if you think like that you'll be content to start in the third rank, not really push for it and generally be content and happy with yourself for ever dwelling back there, you've actually of late gone way up in my estimation I'm almost embarrassed to say and now it's time to punch through to the next level, now you have a decent boat.
 Now this EPS guy, he sails a Supernova off sail no 666 and looks decidedly strawberry blonde what can I say? He hasn't got a beard, if he grew one it would be a similar colour to your own, next time you need to focus on him, bury his ass on the line, ask him some personal hygiene question and how he copes with it, with three seconds to go, be really nice to his wife or girlfriend before the race, ask him if the wings on his EPS are holding up ok, stuff like that..WinkLOL


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Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:43pm
Depends on the sail more than the mast nessa. I'd go fir the Simon Childs set up to start with except do not go for 300lbs of rig tension on a polyester boat, you'll rip the foredeck off.i think I used to use about 130 and even then there's a chance you could damage it if its not strong. Most of the vandercraft boats were basically development ones. The strengthening under the mast varies throughout. You should be ok on something the age of 1065.

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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Null

Originally posted by winging it

Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

Originally posted by winging it

Simon, the last phantom, 1034, was sailing with a tin rig.  Is there any way we can get hold of the data so we could cluck ste his place according to our local handicap for older phantoms?  Just for curiosity's sake?

What's your older Phantom PY  ?

Yes would be interesting to re-process,  fits in with our project on Age related handicaps 

Tin rigs sail off 1035 at Hunts. Thanks very much.

On that age of boat it will be one of the heavier GRP hulls as well wont it?  

I seem to recall is it not that much overweight but it is fragile in places (and has evidence of many repairs in 2 particular spots).


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 3:49pm
What colour is it Paul?

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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 4:01pm
White, it came from the Lake District without the rig.  Tania Mara.

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the same, but different...



Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by Null

 The chap in Eps  is quite a good yachter certainly better than me  here are his results in other fleets http://enter.sailracer.org/sailor_results.asp?sailor=Richard%20PAKES

You've got to do something about that mental attitude, nobody is better than you, if you think like that you'll be content to start in the third rank, not really push for it and generally be content and happy with yourself for ever dwelling back there, you've actually of late gone way up in my estimation I'm almost embarrassed to say and now it's time to punch through to the next level, now you have a decent boat.
 Now this EPS guy, he sails a Supernova off sail no 666 and looks decidedly strawberry blonde what can I say? He hasn't got a beard, if he grew one it would be a similar colour to your own, next time you need to focus on him, bury his ass on the line, ask him some personal hygiene question and how he copes with it, with three seconds to go, be really nice to his wife or girlfriend before the race, ask him if the wings on his EPS are holding up ok, stuff like that..WinkLOL

Ha ha thanks Graeme.  To be honest and in all seriousness the attitude thing is spot on.  just been texting Dan about it.  As unbelievable as it may sound LOL I am a stress head, i don't cope with it well never have.  It troubles me in life as well as sailing.  I am often blinkered by it and this weekend was no exception.  
I hate being in a rush and helped my pal rig his boat in the process snapping his traveller, meaning I had to re-splice him a new one with not much time to spare.  It stressed me out.  I lost the plot.  My boat speed was very good looking at the replay's, my starting was fine.  But I was concious not to get into to many battles for fear of exploding and making a show of myself ala the Aero sailor.  

If I keep myself calm i perform much better.  Its a failing I have in life as well as in a boat.  I get it, just learning to cope with it.  

I have always been a very, very bad loser but i have learnt to deal with this (had to being sh*t at most things) however it has meant i have lost some of the 'Killer' instinct.

So to improve my performance and move on to the next step I need to keep calm, remember it doesn't really matter and concentrate on my tacticks.   I hope that doesn't sound like i am making excuses, My result is a result of exactly how I sailed.  I am fairly happy with how to sail and setup a Zero now, my boat handling is pretty good  its just my head that needs really sorting.

But thanks for the kind words Graeme, from someone with your experience in both life and on the water it means allot.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

What colour is it Paul?

White...with whiter patches. The repairs are where the side decks round over into the cockpit (same place both sides)


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Woodbotherer
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 4:41pm
Well for the first time, this sunday I went and practised what I used to preach back in the day when folk used to listen to me, got there a bit early for a change managed to get on the water and sailed the course rather than tipping up just as the five blows.
It's been troubling me that I could sail that boat to pretty damn near it's handicap on a pursuit but never in an actual race, yesterday we had similar light conditions which is where like it or not I'm quite quick, so I ran the course got all my tacking angles dialled, got a rough idea which way the wind was shifting when it did, lined myself up for a half decent start then punched out with the first rank, rounded first and pretty much held the lead all the way round. Then about the time I usually lose focus, the Bandito Bros in their Buzz got through me so I had to re focus sharpen the f**k up and get them back and by them pushing, I managed it, won over the water and got a 2nd on corrected which for me on a sunday morning was a major breakthrough, so now I've done it twice, once in the pursuit and once in an actual race, but.. and here's the clincher.. only because I wanted to and needed to prove to myself it could be done rather than just accepting that EPS was never going to cut it on the small lake, it's all head stuff, nothing physical or settings, or any other clap trap, it's just your head, ninety percent of the time, get it straight, well informed, calm, collected and focussed then use the force..Wink

There's a rider mind you, it only happened because the bandido bros had bribed the race officer to lay an assym friendly course (for the kids in the feva, not them of course. Wink)


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Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 26 Jan 15 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by maxibuddah

What colour is it Paul?

White...with whiter patches. The repairs are where the side decks round over into the cockpit (same place both sides)

I was thinking it was a different boat, sorry don't know the history of that one.


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Everything I say is my opinion, honest



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